Why does this verse speak about people being in Heaven in addition to 144,000 other people who are also in Heaven?
The Bible nowhere says everyone is going to Heaven but It does describe 144,000 people redeemed from the Earth standing before God's throne in Heaven (Revelation 14:1). It also mention another group standing before God's throne in Heaven (Revelation 7:9-10), a vast crowd of Gentile people from Earth, saved by God and the Lamb (Jesus Christ). They're too numerous for humans to number. What's the differences between these two groups of people in Heaven?
Daylily, you asked me what indicates that the vast crowd of 7:9 will be ONLY of Gentile believers. Well, vss 1-8 detail the Jewishness of the 144,000, then the next group is careful to distinguish between them and Jews by saying the great crowd are "from every nation, tribe, people and language". The Bible always speaks of Jews then everyone else as being Gentiles. But I grant that there may be Jews in the Great Crowd in addition to the 144,000.
Rebmilc, a great answer by the way. Thanks.
- ANONYMOUSLYLv 62 months agoFavorite Answer
There are actually three issues to address here. The first is the number of people in heaven. In Revelation 7 and 14, we are told about a group of 144,000 people that will always be with the Lamb. If we take these descriptions of this group literally they would be only Jewish male virgins. This would mean means that Peter (not a virgin), the Blessed Mother (not a male), and Jehovah’s Witnesses founder Charles Taze Russel (not a Jew) would not be in heaven.
There are other problems with the Witnesses’ thesis that these 144,000 will be the only people in heaven. The book also shows 24 elders that surround the throne of God (Rv 4:4). This brings the grand total to 144,024. This number is increased dramatically by Revelation 7:9, which states there is a countless multitude before the throne. The number 144,000 is likely only a symbolic reference to the New Israel, arrived at by squaring the number of the 12 tribes of Israel and multiplying by 1000.
As to the question of those left on earth, Jesus never speaks of having two flocks, an earthly and heavenly class of followers. Jesus has one bride, and she is not divided into two camps. Those with their name in the book of life enter the New Jerusalem (Rv 21:27) and those whose names are not in the book of life are thrown into the lake of fire (Rv 20:15). This does not leave room for a middle class. All of God’s people are together in the New Jerusalem, not part here and part there.
The references in Psalm 37 to "inheriting the land" are directed towards the promised land of Israel, which later became a type or figure of heaven. We are told by Paul in Philippians 3:20, "our citizenship is in heaven." Those who are occupied with what is earthly will "end in destruction" according to the prior verse.
On the nature of this destruction, the JW’s book Reasoning from the Scriptures states that Christendom teaches "hell is a place . . . where the wicked, after death, are punished (and some believe that this is with torment)." It then states the JW position that "they [the damned] are conscious of nothing, they obviously feel no pain" (p. 169). The Bible indicates otherwise: "The smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest (Rv 14:11); the rich man, "being in torment," calls out, "I am in anguish in this blazing fire" (Lk 16:23-24); "there men will weep and gnash their teeth" (Mt 8:12).
When discussing these points with a JW, make clear that we were created to see the face of God; as David wrote, "As the deer longs for streams of water, so my soul longs for you, O God. My being thirsts for God, the living God. When can I go and see the face of God?" (Ps 42).
In all charity, the Watchtower’s idea that all but the 144,000 will live in paradise apart from God for all eternity amounts to a promise of an eternal petting zoo instead of the Beatific Vision. You must reawaken in them the desire for the union with God promised to all in Christ Jesus.
- 2 months ago
(Revelation 7:4) And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:
Likewise those who undergo Christian baptism become God’s property, his slaves, to employ as he sees fit. (1Co 6:20) An example of God’s direction of such matters is found in Revelation, where reference is made to a definite number of persons finally “sealed,” namely, 144,000. (Re 7:4-8) Even before such final approval, God’s holy spirit serves as a seal that gives those sealed a token in advance of their inheritance, a heavenly one. (Eph 1:13, 14; 2Co 5:1-5) Those having such a hope are also told: “God has set the members in the body [of Christ], each one of them, just as he pleased.”—1Co 12:18, 27
- PaulLv 72 months ago
The 144,000 nonsense was never heard of by any Christian from the 1'st Century until the doctrinal chaos of Protestantism began 1,500 years later. It is not part of original and true Christianity, and is therefore rejected by the original and true Christian Church.
- BarneyLv 62 months ago
You will need to dig deeper into what the Bible says about this because your understanding of it is totally wrong.
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- PubliusLv 72 months ago
Because, of course, God doesn't limit the number of people who can go to heaven. He creates all our spirits with eternal life in mind. To have done any less would have made him arbitrary, partial, capricious, mean, and evil.
- Forrest ToneyLv 72 months ago
The 144,000 are only those Elect who have a reserved 1/8 acre lot with-in the 3 1/2 mile radius of Zion . The rest of the Saved can have a first come first served lot on the outside of that .
- ?Lv 72 months ago
That would be a mishandling of scripture. The 144,000 represents a very large number. It is not meant as an actual literal number in that context.
- TeeMLv 72 months ago
Ann, Ann, Ann.
"Standing before the throne" doesn't have to mean what you want it to mean.
Are you telling us, Palm branches exist in heaven?
(Revelation 7:9) . . .standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.
Of course not, you will say, the palm branches are symbolic, because nothing of this physical world exist in heaven.
So if the palm branches are symbolic, then 'standing before the throne CAN also be symbolic.
What do we know about the earth?
David liken the earthly temple to God's footstool.
(1 Chronicles 28:2) . . .“Hear me, my brothers and my people. It was my heart’s desire to build a house as the resting-place for the ark of the covenant of Jehovah and as the footstool of our God, . . .
(Psalm 99:5) 5 Exalt Jehovah our God and bow down at his footstool; He is holy.
(Psalm 132:7) 7 Let us come into his residence; Let us bow down at his footstool.
(Isaiah 66:1) 66 This is what Jehovah says: “The heavens are my throne, and the earth is my footstool.. . .
Notice what Jesus tells us:
(Matthew 5:34, 35) 34 However, I say to you: Do not swear at all, neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by earth, for it is the footstool of his feet; . . .
So faithful worshippers here on the earth are 'standing before the throne'.
Jehovah's earthly subjects embody the temple on earth today.
(1 Corinthians 6:19) 19 Do you not know that your body is the temple of the holy spirit within you, which you have from God? . . .
Noah, walked with the true God, and yet Noah wasn't IN HEAVEN.
What else do we know about this 'vast crowd'?
(Revelation 7:17) . . .will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”
These are the promises made to 'mankind' when God is with them.
(Revelation 21:3, 4) 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
These verses do not say, mankind goes to heaven, it says God comes to be with mankind.
Just as when God walked and talked with Adam in the garden, before Adam's sin.
What do we know about this 'vast crowd'? They are not of the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth.
They worship God through the shed blood of Jesus' blood and have been made clean, symbolically given white robes.
Ann, please return to Jehovah, for he forgives in a large way.
- Anonymous2 months ago
Revelationists think that, nor normal Judeo-Christians.
- Bill MacLv 72 months ago
The 144,00 are from the 12 tribes of Israel.
- Anonymous2 months ago
>>>What's the differences between these two groups of people in Heaven<<<
There is no difference
Galatians 3:28 KJV — There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Romans 10:12 KJV — For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.