Anonymous
Anonymous asked in Society & CultureReligion & Spirituality · 2 years ago

Why do Trinitarians have a hard time understanding that the prehuman Jesus had a beginning?

(Proverbs 8:22) “22 Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago.”

(Colossians 1:15) who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

(Revelation 3:14) “14 “To the angel of the congregation in Laodicea write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:”

Trinitarians are quick to point out that Jesus was not created, he was begotten of God.

Does this not mean that Jesus did not exist at one time?

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  • Anonymous
    2 years ago

    Because if he had a beginning, he could not be God Almighty. And Trinitarians are convinced that Jesus is God Almighty.

  • 2 years ago

    hi there

    the correct term is christian. your cult lexicon is showing. some might suspect you belong to a group with cult like tendencies.

    in the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god.

    the beginning here is when time began. as stated, the word was already existing, he is with god and he was god.

    so if you contend this means jesus had a beginning then logically the other subject of the paragraph, god, must also have had a beginning.

    but this would contradict the bible. you're used to that i'm sure.

    as for me i'll stick to the bible. jw reasoning has proven faulty on virtually every front.

  • TeeM
    Lv 7
    2 years ago

    Because if they admitted this, then they would have to reject the very foundation of their faith.

    Because if they admitted this, then they would have to admit that they have been teaching a lie, from Satan.

    Because if they admitted this, they would have to swallow their pride and humbly admit they are wrong.

    Are these verses 'cherry picked' or as one dictionary states: "to select with great care" This commentator thinks this is a bad thing. True, it could be, but not in this case.

    Proverbs 8 Wisdom. Please notice what these trinitarian scholars say about wisdom:

    Encyclopedia of The Bible: Proverbs declared “Wisdom cries aloud in the street” (Prov 1:20). Proverbs contains the most famous passage of all in which wisdom is identified as having existed before man was created, even before the creation of the world (8:22-31). The Apoc. advanced even beyond the OT in the personification of Wisdom. Wisdom was declared to be the only begotten of God, living with God and sharing His throne. Wisdom was declared to be the very effulgence of eternal light. Wisdom was thought of as a heavenly being.

    Matthew Henry's Commentary: Verses 22-31

    That it is an intelligent and divine person that here speaks seems very plain, and that it is not meant of a mere essential property of the divine nature, for Wisdom here has personal properties and actions; and that intelligent divine person can be no other than the Son of God himself,

    (Proverbs 8:22) “22 Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago.”

    According to their own scholars, Jesus is Wisdom, just as Jesus is the Word. So Jesus was produced (generated, created, when? - First)

    (Colossians 1:15) “15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;”

    Here trinitarians play word games. "Of" doesn't mean "part of", it means 'over', 'Firstborn' doesn't mean 'eldest' or 'oldest' it means 'most important' (talk about adding to and taking away from God's Word)

    Then they shout, Jehovah's Witnesses don't understand this verse. When in truth, they've changed it to mean what they want it to mean, and not what Paul wrote.

    1. An image is never the original. Jesus is the image of God.

    2. Jesus is the eldest child of all of God's children, using the KJV translation of 'creatures'.

    Remembering beget, firstborn and create all mean the same, Jesus had a beginning, an origin (Micah 5:2).

    True Jesus is over all creation, but Paul doesn't tell us this till verse 18.

    (Revelation 3:14) “14 “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:”

    If we take this in stages working backwards, we have "the creation by God": this is an easily understood statement.

    We are talking about the things God created.

    "the beginning" is also easily understood as the start, the first thing. Who or what was the first thing created by God?

    The faithful and true witnesses, who is Jesus Christ.

    Thus this verse planely states that Jesus was the very first creation by God, his firstborn.

    Sadly, trinitarians won't listen to Wisdom, God's Firstborn, or God's appointed ruler over mankind.

    Sadly, trinitarians won't pray to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ for the accurate understanding of him, the only true God, and the one whom he sent to explain who he really is. (Eph 1:17)

    Finally let us not forget Micah 5:2, who tells us, Jesus origin / beginning was of long ago.

    (Micah 5:2) “ 2 And you, O Bethʹle·hem Ephʹra·thah, The one too little to be among the thousands of Judah, From you will come out for me the one to be ruler in Israel, Whose origin is from ancient times, from the days of long ago.”

    4 different Bible writers tell us the exact same thing, Jesus was created first, then all other things came through Jesus.

    This doesn't make Jesus a creator, but as Proverbs chapter 8 tells us. Jesus is God's master worker.

    Applying scriptures concerning God, to Jesus doesn't make Jesus, God, it only shows how desperate trinitarians are to prove their false teaching.

    .

  • Anonymous
    2 years ago

    It is hard enough to get a grasp on world history! I am sure that when and if we get to heaven we will have to take "Heaven History"

    Until we get the prerequisites done to take the course- speculation will do us no good.

    I know to many understanding the nature of the relationship between God, Jesus the Christ and the Holy Spirit is important to the point that some declare it to be mandatory for entry into heaven. But I find no such thing taught in the New Testament. Either we are seeking to become more righteous or we are not. If we are not seeking to be more righteous then we are headed the wrong way.

    To appear to be the author or custodian of the absolute truth on this subject puts a person in the position of making a disciple after themselves. We are called to make disciples to Christ and that means not being puffed up with knowledge but instead being filled with agape.

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  • 2 years ago

    One does NOT need to understand Trinity, Jehovah, Father, God, etc. to be saved, BUT to understand Jesus is known in the first of Genesis as "the Word", and "The Word made flesh", etc. and NOBODY COMES TO GOD, EXCEPT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

  • David
    Lv 7
    2 years ago

    In the beginning was the Word. IN THE BEGINNING, JESUS ALREADY WAS.

  • 2 years ago

    "Beginning, middle and end" are transitory and only apply to form. To say Christ was only his form is a very limited understanding. Because God is without beginning, everything of God is without beginning, unless you deny God as 'Omnipresent', which is the very bases for the Trinity doctrine. If God can be everything, everywhere, at all times, why is pulling off the Trinity so difficult for Him?

    Jesus did not teach us to have a worldly and material interpretation of His Example and Teachings. "I and the

    Father are one." "Believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me." "...ye are gods". "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you." Imagine what all that looks like if He meant us to take it all literally.

  • Anonymous
    2 years ago

    Trinitarians are followers of the Catholic Doctrine which has also been spread to other Christian denominations.

    "Trinitarians are quick to point out that Jesus was not created, he was begotten of God. "

    You need to look up the definition of Begotten.

  • Anonymous
    2 years ago

    Jesus the Christ of Nazareth, the Messiah is the Word, the Light and God incarnate as John 1:1-14 and His name Emmanuel reveals. <t><

  • Anonymous
    2 years ago

    The problem lies with the fact that this so-called non-created being does the will of the God who he's said to be. Check out John 6:38 he came to do, Not his own will, but the will of God who SENT him. How do we know God SENT him? John 17:3 shows there's an Only True God and the one whom he Sent, Jesus Christ. So if Jesus is God and Not created then the trinity preaches 2 Gods. One is the Only True God and the other is now classified as a False God. They sit comfortably on thoughts like this and are ok with it. Not even joking. They blindly say the two (The Father and The Son) SHARE the same spirit. Like what do you mean by 2??? I thought there was only One??? They can't grasp that it's like saying John and His Son share the same room.

    Source(s): 2 beings or 3 since they call the very thing that the Father and Son share, God. A third God is now present then. So the Father and Son share the same person? Woah. Let's not forget that they do use the word "Person(s)" very often. They'd call one of them "The 1st, 2nd or 3rd person of the Trinity." They are so blind it's unbelievable.
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