Why is HB2 so controversial?
I am a native North Carolinian and I don't understand why the HB2 law is so controversial. I get that some people see it as a way to oppress transgendered people, but I don't feel like that was the case. The law states that you must use the bathroom that is the same as the sex on your birth certificate, however as long as you have the proper sex change surgery you can get the sex on your birth certificate changed. I don't think it's fair to have a woman share a bathroom with someone who is anatomically a male, nor is it fair to have a man share a bathroom with someone who is anatomically a woman. And no matter what you identify as, if a grown person of the opposite sex follows a child into the bathroom a lot of people are going to have problems with that. I'm not intolerant of the LGBTQ community and I support equal rights for everyone, but I fail to see how HB2 is oppressive. Please enlighten me, because I genuinely want to know what you think. And please don't bash me or my beliefs, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that should be respected.
- 4 years agoFavorite Answer
It's controversial because Charlotte passed an ordinance last month that basically gave transsexuals what they always wanted, equal protection under the law in public accommodations. Fast forward about a week later I think and then you have politicians passing around the House Bill 2 that basically negates Charlotte's previous ordinance because people it restricts public bathrooms, locker rooms, and whatnot to biological sex. Think about it. This is OBVIOUSLY anti-transsexual law because why in the world would any politician need to pass a law in 2016 of all years telling people to use the bathroom based on their biological sex?
Haven't we already been doing this damn ѕhit since separate bathrooms were invented? Wasn't this always already a basic law for centuries? Or you really think that the people of North Carolina just don't know how to use the right bathroom? It's NO coincidence that this was passed only in the state of North Carolina shortly after North Carolina passed the equal protections ordinance for transsexuals. That's why everybody is mad as hell as they should be because it's well-crafted discrimination.
I know that House Bill 2 says that biological sex is defined by what's on the birth certificate. I'm currently living in North Carolina and read the law myself. I know that transsexuals can get a sex change and then would be free to use the bathroom they want. But it's still discrimination because everybody and these lawmakers KNOW that not every transsexual can afford to get a complete surgery. Sex change surgery can range from $7,000 to over $50,000 depending on sex and the procedure.
This displaces many transsexuals that can't change what is on their birth certificate because it forces them to use a bathroom that makes them and others feel uncomfortable. I say just let them use whatever the fυck damn bathroom they want. It's not going to hurt anybody. Nobody is going to rape or kill you. They're just going in there to piss, ѕhit, and be merry.
- EmmaLv 74 years ago
Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathrooms
I mean IF SAFETY IS TRULY THE CONCERN then you start with THOSE THAT HAVE PROVEN THEMSELVES TO BE A DANGER TO OTHERS, like MALE and FEMALE sexaul preditors on the Megan laws website, that are using public restrooms with woman and children, at least they have been proven to be a threat.
Who's behind the new LGBT bathroom laws?
Mathew Staver of Liberty Counsel
"An objective observer could conclude that they want to push back against that ruling. "Well I certainly want to push back against that ruling," Staver said. "It was a wrong ruling. It has no basis in the constitution." Where are they going with this? "The Supreme Court in the 5-4 opinion on marriage in 2015 lit the house on fire," Staver said. "All we're trying to do is control the fire at this point in time.""
There you have it, these bathroom bills sweeping the country are being pushed by the christian right, because they lost same sex marriage, it has nothing to do with safety, it is vengeance plain and simple.. In fact it will make restrooms in to what they claim trans people are doing now by Forcing transmen into the women's room and transwoman into the men's room this will allow male and female predators into those rest rooms without having to disguise themselves in any way, all they need do is say they are trans (no crossdressing needed), these bathroom bills WILL ONLY GIVE PREDATORS EASIER ACCESS, transgender people ARE NOT the problem CRIMINALS ARE.
Being trans means your ARE trans, being trans does not mean you are nor does it make you a predator, it does not make or mean you mentally ill, it JUST means you are trans.
You might also realise that hb2 also takes EVERYONE'S right away to sue for discrimination under NC law you now must use the 1964 civil rights act which has a much higher bar to meet in order to gain standing, it limits minimum wage to that of the states (so much for the gops idea of local governments), and it prevents cities and town from establishing any civil rights in excess of what the state has and those that did hb2 takes those civil rights away.
This is a straight up return to discrimination under the law with the transgender community as a smokescreen for laws they could not pass any other way.
Leave it to the south, Again.
- xxx000auLv 74 years ago
Let me just help you a little.
In reporting the issue I will quote the headline for just one of many reports. I quote:
"North Carolina Governor Revises Anti-LGBT Law To Be Slightly Less Anti-LGBT" Now note I did not write that, its the work of a Rich Juzwiak. A professional new reporter reporting on the law.
Hypothetically. Let us test this headline by altering it just a little.
"North Carolina Governor Revises Anti-***** Law To Be Slightly Less Anti-*****"
Not as far outrageous or silly as you may assume, less than 100 years ago racism was common in the south.
Or if the governor was say a Muslim and this was the headline.
"North Carolina Governor Revises Anti-Christian Law To Be Slightly Less Anti-Christian"
Religious tensions have existed for as long as we have had religions.
The problem with this idea is simple. Who is going to check your birth certificate before you use the rest room, and seriously, could you picture your self busting to go and someone steps in your way demanding you prove your entitlement to go. I would so love to be on hand and witness you protest as your mess your self.
What if the details entered on the birth certificate were wrong?
It has happened in the past.
What if the person does not have one, as an example was born in a place that did not maintain accurate records or the records were destroyed maybe by fire.
Here is another consideration.
What if I am shown as a male on my birth certificate but have had a sex change so to the on looker, maybe you and your family, I appear to be a women. In McDonalds I need to go so I walk in after your 8 year old son enters the men's room.
Maybe I was a women on my certificate and after a sex change now appear to be a man, are you ok with me walking in behind your 10 year old daughter as we go to the rest room?
Here is another little fact they have over looked.
1 in 1000 people identify as transsexual. Not all of them medically explore the ability to change. Many of them avoid public rest rooms other than when absolutely desperate to go. In fact I would so love to know just what the number of complaints really have been received compared to the number of people using rest rooms and the number of transsexuals in society.
Here are some numbers that are NOT hypothetical.
1 in 4 girls and .5 in 4 boys are subject to child abuse.
that is 250 girls and 125 boys in 1000. The most common offender is the father followed by the mother and then the older brother.
With those numbers in mind I wonder if you would be comfortable with the following head line.
"North Carolina Governor introduces child protection laws to protect children from dads and mums and older brothers. CCTV cameras will be installed in all home with children under the age of 17"
Strange how some find that idea uncomfortable.
- MarkLv 74 years ago
It's controversial because it could be just the beginning -this could easily spiral into "separate but equal" toilets for different races.
ps I'd be freaked out if someone of either sex stuck his or her head under the stall wall and said something like "whatcha doin'?", but I've never heard of that happening... Otherwise... it just seems like overkill, ESPECIALLY how the proponents got people to vote for it - you know "men will molest children".
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- JessicaLv 74 years ago
It's controversial because it's a solution without a problem. You're also assuming that all trans people can have SRS. What about those whose medical problems prevent them from having it? What about those who can't afford it because discrimination of exactly this nature means that they don't have steady employment?
Why do I say it's a solution without a problem? I say that because if it were a problem it would have occurred already. Trans people have been quietly and without any fuss using public facilities for the past 64 years. Guess how many trans people have been arrested and charged for sexual assault in a washroom in the 64 years since Christine Jorgensen came Out.
I'll give you a little hint:
That's right, absolutely zero. Exactly no trans people have ever been charged with attempting a sexual assault in a washroom. Every time you hear Conservatives fearmongering about trans people in washrooms, it turns out that they're lying.
Now contrast that statistic with the number of Conservatives who have been arrested for sexual assault or improprieties in washrooms since 1952.
Um, who are we supposed to be afraid of again?
The anonymous coward naysayer loves to use all sorts of big words in his attempts to seem erudite and educated, but what he conveniently forgets to do is to actually supply any supporting facts which back up his claims. There is a very simple reason for that, though. It's because he hasn't actually got any.
And now the anonymous coward tries once more to sound like he knows what he's talking about, and he hopes that you don't notice his own, very serious logical fallacy, the "Fallacy of Authority" otherwise known as "Because I say so". Also, and deeply hypocritically, he shamelessly makes use of the very same "slippery slope" fallacy he accuses Mark of. Shame on you, Anon. Bad form.
Anon, I use all those links to show you that there are multiple reasons why you're wrong. This is not a "bandwaggon fallacy", not is it an "appeal to authority". My links are there to support my arguments in more than one way and to forestall you from using the more common lies you transphobes so love to use. You are using another favourite 'phobe tactic which is to argue about the form of the argument rather than address the content. You are doing this because you in fact have no way to address my content. Your empty fancy words cannot distract from the fact that your "argument" is bankrupt.
Stop demonstrating that you don't know what you're talking about and that you don't know what logical fallacies are.
- DaveKLv 74 years ago
We're talking about taking a stinkin' p=ss. I don't know about anyone else.....but I don't look and I don't care.
- Anonymous4 years ago
Mark is using a fallacy known as slippery slope. His claims aren't a direct result from the law but that the law will lead to other laws that he doesn't like. While you can point to potential causations as reason to not want the law, it is up to you to actually support the claim in other than "link spam" or various fallacies.
This is an tactic seen by trolls who don't actually have anything valid to say but don't like something because it goes against their beliefs.
Brianna's fallacies are
1) Appeal to Novelty. That the year is 2016 doesn't matter, it doesn't even matter that you are getting support. It is JUST AS PROGRESSIVE to enforce laws that were lax as it is to repeal them, you only agree with one but do not see the downsides and refuse to acknowledge that the choice to segregate restrooms was made and has to be dealt with first rather than later.
2) Appeal to emotion: It isn't anti-transsexual. It's anti-transsexual agenda. If you don't support abortion rights, you aren't anti-woman, you're anti-abortion! Your AGENDA is not who you are, by saying we're oppressing you by opposing your agenda you're making this into a pathos argument rather than one about bathrooms.
3) More appeals to emotion: The bill simply enforces what was originally common courtesy. A distinction has to be made, your "gender" cannot be proven but your "biological sex" can be. It doesn't matter that the LGBT agenda has pushed the lie that people identify by gender, YOU identify by gender OTHERS don't. The will of what the MAJORITY desires is "democracy" the minority oppressing the majority is "tyranny".
4) Blatant dismissal of fears using strawman arguments. You don't speak for every trans person, and even though trans people are going to be the SMALLEST population of people affected by this, it makes it easier for non-trans to pretend to be trans and do all the nasty things women believe they're going to do. This doesn't mean it WILL happen, but just that you're ignoring the reason why people oppose it and trying to ridicule it when jessica is oh so willing to show that it IS a problem for gender-typicals.
I say and say again, this has always been a fight for unisex bathrooms. Until you acknowledge EXACTLY what you're proposing as being unenforceable without turning restrooms unisex, you are blindly screaming "oppression" when the reality is that you're the oppressors.
Yep, and jessica is using the fallacy of bandwagoning, appeal to authority, and "Pity me because I'm too stupid to understand the difference between making my own argument with my own words and posting dozens of links which I only read the title of and considering my argument made while IGNORING any attempt to dispute the claims other than to say you're a troll, you're allowed to stop lying, or other phrases that don't address the points made and only serve to make me feel better and allow me to continue spreading my heterophobic hate speech"
Actually, I sound educated because I am, I read your articles and try presenting point as to why they're incorrect. Your responses never vary other than to say that I cannot argue my own points, I NEED to appeal to authority or you won't accept them. That is hardly the mark of the educated person Jessica, and it is obvious you only repeat what you're told rather than attempt to understand it so you can handle being put under the pressure I can put you under.
- Anonymous4 years ago
because trannies are such whiners that cry like babies when they need to poo