Enzo asked in Arts & HumanitiesGenealogy · 7 years ago

Frustrated! Trying to trace family's origins. Please help?

Hello, once again I am trying to locate the father of one of my ancestors. An awesome group of people have been helping me here (thank you). A user named Ashley located this death info for my great great grandfather, Joseph Sylvester Walthers. I learned from this that his father's name was Charley Walthers, and he was also born in New Mexico, which I'm assuming was part of Mexico at this time?

I want to learn who Charley's parents were, because I'm hoping they were the ones to immigrate from Europe. We are supposedly tied to Germany, but that's probably useless info. For all I know, they could've come from any part of Europe.

I'm hoping Charley's parents won't lead me to New Mexico once again.

I've tried to locate Charley on censuses, births, etc on family search, but I cannot find anything!

I even tried searching him as Carlos since Carlos is Charles in spanish. Nothing

Would you please help?

Death Certificate - State of Arizona

Name: Joseph Sylvester Walthers

Place of Death: Maricopa County General Hospital, Phoenix, Arizona

Usual Residence: 1007 S. 7th Street, Phoenix, Arizona

Date of Death: June 15, 1956

Age: 80

Date of Birth: 1-22-76

Place of Birth: New Mexico

Race: White

Occupation: Plumber

Father: Charley Walthers, born New Mexico

Mother: Unknown

Informant: Richard Walthers, 1007 S. 7th St, Phoenix, AZ

Spouse: Barbara Walthers

Update:

Ashley- Gosh you're good at this! I would've never though to check Joseph's sibling's records.

Next to Sofia's name on the first census you listed, it says NM-Germany-NM. What does that mean? That her grandparents are from Germany?

Charley is certainly an allusive character. If I could just locate his parents it would do wonders for my family's research!

Update 2:

Just to clarify, This is not for a school project. Not sure how that was implied. Lol

I really appreciate everyone's help! At least I now have an idea of where the immigration occurred. If I could just find Charley's info, maybe I could find out what part of Germany he was from

3 Answers

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  • Ashley
    Lv 7
    7 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Hello again. I did search high and low for Charley, but came up empty handed. That's one reason I started looking at that Teresa Walthers (possible sister of Joe), hoping she might provide some info on their parents. Sometimes when your own ancestor's records are sparse, their siblings' records can be helpful.

    So we know that Joe listed Teresa as his nearest relative. We know that Teresa was born circa 1880 in New Mexico; that she married Apolonio Rodriguez on 27 May 1895 in Flagstaff, AZ; and that she later married Dionisio Sandoval. There's a family tree on Ancestry that has this Teresa in it. No father listed, but it has her mother as Andrea Arias, and a sister Sofia Walthers. No sources listed, but let's see what we can find:

    1900 Census - Old Albuquerque, Bernalillo County, New Mexico

    Andrea Arias - Nov 1852 - 49 - widow - 15 kids, 4 living - Territory of NM - Philadelphia - Terr. of N.M.

    Julian Martinez - son - Dec 1870 - 29 - divorced - NM-NM-NM - House painter

    Anita Martinez - dau - Oct 1883 - 16 - NM-NM-NM

    Procopio Martinez - son - May 1888 - 12 - NM-NM-NM

    Sofia Walthers - dau - Oct 1893 - 6 - NM-Germany-NM

    Here we have a marriage record for Sofia:

    Name: Estevan Romero

    Spouse's Name: Sofia Walters

    Event Date: 10 Jan 1915

    Event Place: San Felipe, Albuquerque, Bernalillo, New Mexico

    Father's Name: Dionisii Romero

    Spouse's Father's Name: Charles Walter <=== Hmmm

    Let's see what we can dig up on Andrea Arias:

    Name: Andrellita Martinez

    Death Date: 29 Nov 1931

    Death Place: Old Albuquerque, Bernalillo, New Mexico

    Gender: Female

    Age: 80

    Birth Year (Estimated): 1851

    Spouse's Name: Ramon Martinez

    Father's Name: Julian Ares

    Mother's Name: Altagracia Ares

    1860 Census - 7th Precinct Albuquergue, Bernalillo, New Mexico Territory

    William Ayers - 31 - Pennsylvania - Clerk

    Altigracia Ayers - 22 - NM <==== Her maiden name is Perea, as per other kids' birth records

    Andrea Ayers - 9 - NM

    Francisca Perea - 46 - NM - Laborer

    Francisca Perea - 95 - NM

    Pablo Escabel - 28 - NM - Servant

    Charles Fugit - 37 - Missouri - Farmer

    New Mexico Marriages

    Name: Ramon Martin

    Spouse's Name: Andrea Ayres

    Event Date: 14 Feb 1870

    Event Place: Albuquerque, Bernalillo, New Mexico

    Father's Name: Salvador

    Mother's Name: Dolores Torres

    Spouse's Father's Name: Julian

    Spouse's Mother's Name: Altagracia

    Children of Ramon Martinez & Andrea Arias:

    Name: Juliano Martinez

    Christening Date: 18 Dec 1870

    Christening Place: Albuquerque, Bernalillo, New Mexico

    Birth Date: 16 Dec 1870

    Birthplace: Albuquerque

    Father's Name: Ramon Martinez

    Mother's Name: Andrea Ayres de Martinez

    Name: Anita Martinez

    Gender: Female

    Christening Date: 12 Jul 1881

    Christening Place: Alameda, Bernalillo, New Mexico

    Birth Date: 06 Jul 1881

    Birthplace: Albuquerque

    Name Note: She md. Romualdo Sarracino 11 Apr 1923, in this church.

    Father's Name: Ramon Martinez

    Mother's Name: Andrea Ares

    Name: Ana Martinez

    Gender: Female

    Christening Date: 28 Oct 1883

    Christening Place: Alameda, Bernalillo, New Mexico

    Birth Date: 28 Oct 1883

    Birthplace: Albuquerque

    Father's Name: Ramon Martinez

    Mother's Name: Andrea Ares

    Name: Francisca Martin

    Christening Date: 29 Oct 1885

    Christening Place: San Felipe, Albuquerque, Bernalillo, New Mexico

    Birth Date: 27 Oct 1885

    Birthplace: Old Albuquerque

    Father's Name: Ramon Martin

    Mother's Name: Andrea Arias

    Name: Felix Procopio Martin

    Christening Date: 22 May 1888

    Christening Place: Alameda, Bernalillo, New Mexico

    Birth Date: 18 May 1888

    Birthplace: Albuquerque

    Name Note: His marr. is recorded Bk H pg 105

    Father's Name: Ramon Martin

    Mother's Name: Andreaita Harris

    Soooo... Ramon dies, and then Andrea has a daughter Sofia Walthers born in 1893. Makes sense. But where do Joseph and Teresa fit in? Teresa was supposedly born around 1880, and Joseph was born in either 1876 or 1885, when Andrea is still married to Ramon. Could Joseph & Teresa be children of Charley by a different mother? Then he marries or hooks up with Andrea and has Sofia? And where the heck IS Charley??

    This is so tricky!

    ==================

    Edit to add: Yes, on the census where it says NM-Germany-NM... the first location is her place of birth, second location is her father's birth place, and third is her mother's birthplace. So yes, it says Sofia's father (named Charles Walters, according to her marriage record) was born in Germany. Sorry I didn't make that clear. The 1880-1930 censuses asked for each person's birth place as well as their parents birthplace, so that's why there are 3 locations listed for everyone. You'll notice for Andrea in 1900, her father's birthplace is listed as Philadelphia. And when we find her on the 1860 census, we see that her father's birthplace is indeed listed as Pennsylvania.

    Another thought: The Albuquerque City Directories would be a good place to look for Charles Walthers. City directories were sort of like phone books before there were telephones; they listed residents' names, address, and occupation. If Charley was in Albuquerque in the 1880-90s, he may be in the directories. Unfortunately, I'm not finding directories for those years online. I'll keep looking, but you may have to visit a library to look at them.

  • 7 years ago

    again, Ashley did a great job and I will add a comment...

    on JOE'S census records, he shows both parents to be born NM. But when you come to his sister, her info says her father was born in Germany. Which shows a very important approach.. it is always beneficial to find records of all persons in a family group, not just the direct line. Teresa may have given more correct info (or, one of Joe's children gave info for the census, and was not clear that the grandfather Charles/ Charley may not have been born in NM).

    And census is a primary source.. but it can/does have errors.

    edit

    I apologize for replies that are failures to read your question. You are not doing this for school.

    And.. yes..you can "do this yourself" at a library, but the point here at yahoo is HELPING PERSONS who are new to research, sometimes by simply volunteering a search, or by explaining methods that are unfamiliar to a new researcher.

    If a person does not choose to help...that is their privilege. It is inappropriate to deny others that they can.

  • 7 years ago

    Sorry I am unable to help you the information you provided does not indicate the source it came from( could be census, death records or even newspapers) and I to not have time to research it. YOU can research your own family by using public libraries to access Ancestry, or by using the Family History Centers to access about 14 websites and get assistance in your research.

    Since this is really not something you want to do but a class project (that is about learning how to do research) not really about family ancestry I agree with Todd.

    Source(s): Genealogist researcher 40+ years, Anthropologist, and retired Instructor - I used this same type of assignment for years to teach students how to do research before there were computers.
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