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Lv 7

LDS, can you help me out with proving that Isaiah 64:6 is not the definition of all men?

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

as i understand it, men are saved by GRACE, true. but there are those that become sanctified. the born again do not commit sin. but if we do sin, we are still covered by the Grace of Christ even until we become the resurrected glory of christs Reign. as i understand it.

can you add to this?

or are we indeed filthy rags even with the atonement of christ

Update:

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

2 Answers

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  • 7 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Notice that the group of people the Lord refers to includes no one who calls upon his name. People who actively seek him, repent of their sins, and try to obey him are certainly not elements of that set.

    Further, Rev. 3:

    4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

    Even in the most degenerate congregations, there can still be a few who truly strive to follow Christ.

  • phrog
    Lv 7
    7 years ago

    IMHO - there is some danger in taking just a few words from the middle of a thing - one may easily loose sight of the intent OF the thing.

    Isaiah 64 is a reference back to Isaiah 59 --

    "Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

    But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."

    Israel pleads with the Lord on her own behalf....following and expounding upon the plea of the watchman in 63:15-19. For example, compare 63:16 with 64:7-8. one could easily see this as the eschatological prayer offered up by the Jews after the second fulfillment of Daniel's abomination of desolation.

    compare:

    KJV JST/IV

    Thou meetest him that rejoiceth Thou meetest him

    and worketh righteousness, that worketh righteousness,

    and rejoice him that

    those that

    remember thee in thy ways: remembreth thee in thy ways;

    behold: thou art wroth;

    for we have sinned:

    in righteousness

    in those is continuance, there is continuance,

    and we shall be saved. and such shall be saved.

    But we have sinned;

    But we are all as we are all as

    an unclean thing, an unclean thing,

    and all our righteousness and all our righteousness

    are as filthy rags; are as filthy rags;

    and we all do fade as a leaf; and we all do fade as a leaf;

    and our iniquities, and our iniquities,

    like the wind, like the wind,

    have taken us away. have taken us away.

    modern translations can present a significantly different reading on the first line of v. 4:

    Yet You have struck him who would gladly do justice

    And remember You in Your ways.

    It is because You are angry that we have sinned;

    We have been steeped in them from old.

    following these translations one could develop the interpretation that even the "just" and "religious" among the people are sinners, --- following abraham's example where he plead with the Lord on behalf of sodom and gomorrah that the righteous would not be smitten along with the wicked. then one would see the above as Israel making its case for preservation based on the righteous among them, even though they aren't all exactly spotless.

    Israel cut the connection with the fountain of living waters (Jer. 2:13), so that nation withered like leaves

    (Isa. 40:7 4:4, 27:8, 41:16, 57:13).

    "no one invokes Your name", the Lord's name is invoked in prayer, oaths and covenant making, so the speaker here is confessing that Israel is not doing what it ought to (65:1)

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