Christian apologists are saying that atheists are refusing to accept spiritual evidence?
How is anything not of this reality...evidence?
no person has been shown to have access to secrets...some of you obviously think there have been some or even believe you can access this other reality...but it's not enough to just say it...words are just words
I was watching a preacher on tv this morning and he referred to it...also I've heard it used by several apologists. I've seen it used in many arguments...look at some of the answers here, but it is used in different ways like only a Christian who has received the spirit could possibly understand, or even buried in the first cause argument...a spirit world that no one can see is in EVERY religion, it's a convenient way to disguise the fact that a spirit world is not real
you prove my point, you assume that a god exists and another reality exists and then work out from there...you first have to prove a spirit world reality exists....I know there is grass is in my yard and can see trees, there is nothing in this reality that has appeared from another reality (none that anyone I know has ever seen)...If it is so evident that there is another reality, why isn't it visible...you can't just say it exists and expect a logical person to believe you
- Anonymous7 years agoFavorite Answer
"spiritual evidence" is a big oxymoron.
Since "spirit" is generated in the mind, "spiritual" means something different to each individual.
That is evidence only of one person's beliefs. It is evidence only to them.
- 7 years ago
I do not see the electricity flow from the switch to the light, but my faith persists every time I go to turn on a light. I exercise faith in a number of ways, one of which is that you will read and understand this message as one who is seeking truth, rather than one simply trying "to score some points."
I have witnessed, and have experienced, many answers to prayer, healings against all the odds, a peace that is beyond understanding, and a relationship to a God who has showed me what true love really means.
My Lord, Jesus Christ, gave back my wife after a serious injury; He has blessed me with two, incredible sons, and a continual train of blessings beyond these.
As long as you insist on treating spiritual truth the same as scientific truth, you will have difficulties in measuring this. Nevertheless, truth can be found if you really want to find it.
- 7 years ago
I'm a follower of Jesus Christ and it's true that using spiritual evidence is not really a good strategy by apologists talking to atheists. It's good evidence for apologists talking to other theists or perhaps some agnostics.
However, just because it can't be proven using the scientific method doesn't mean it's untrue. Since the scientific method can only test things that are repeatable, you can't prove history scientifically. You can prove it historically though.
- mt75689Lv 77 years ago
Are you referring to well known Christian apologists, or to the average Christian on Yahoo Answers?
There is a difference you know. The average Christian is not prepared to argue for their faith, whereas well known apologists are able to hold their own in scholarly debate.
Even so, no one has the kind of evidence that you're looking for. Both Creationists and Evolutionists use the same scientific evidence. The difference is our starting points. No one is unbiased and objective. Creationists begin with the premise that God exists, and Evolutionists begin with the premise that he doesn't ~ which makes science an inadequate subject for proving or disproving God.
- How do you think about the answers? You can sign in to vote the answer.
- Larry RLv 67 years ago
If you are serious, you just asked one heck of a great philosophical question! I really wish we could chat about this one. There is a lot there to unpack.
I'm going to quickly touch on a couple of things. One is what you mean by "evidence', and what exactly the thing you found is evidence of.
Lot of evidence relies on interpretation and context. For example archeologists find ancient Chinese coins all the time. It's really common to find them in China. It's not uncommon to find them in the Middle East. However, if you are excavating a medieval plague pit in London and you find a Chinese Coin, that is MUCH more interesting. Finding one under a pre-Columbian Mayan temple would be the archeological find of the century. Same item, but where you find it makes all the difference.
Similarly, lets say a Paleontologist is digging out a T-Rex skull and he finds a fully jacketed .303 British Mark 7 slug in it. Is that evidence of time travel or evidence that someone is playing a prank on him, or evidence that someone was hunting in the area years ago and the slug burred itself in the dirt, or evidence that they need better site security to keep out vandals, or evidence that this guy is a lousy paleontologist? Same thing, same circumstances, different conclusions.
Second point. Western Philosophers used to talk about two kinds of knowledge, "Natural Knowledge" and 'Revealed Knowledge". Natural knowledge was things that we know because we can discover and verify them ourselves. The Sciences would fall under that. Revealed knowledge is, like you very rightly pointed out, things that we can NOT know from where we are, inside this universe, this reality.
This knowledge would have to have been revealed to us by Supernatural means, such as visions. (Like Lourdes( http://en.lourdes-france.org/deepen/apparitions ) or Fatima.
Now, is it "evidence" since we can't directly verify it? GREAT question.
Since we can't prove the truth of what was revealed in the vision, what can we look to for verification? Can we prove the visions occurred? Even if the visionary is sincere, that's not proof it happened, that's just proof she believed it happened.
So, lets look at extrinsic evidence.
In the case of Lourdes we have miraculous hearings that have been occurring at the site of the visions for years, and that have been scientifically examined and investigated by the Lourdes Medical Bureau. http://en.lourdes-france.org/deepen/cures-and-mira... following a six step, years long procedure. http://en.lourdes-france.org/deepen/cures-and-mira...
So we CAN verify that miraculous cures have been occurring at Lourdes. That is NOT "revealed" knowledge, that's natural knowledge.
Do the hearings themselves DIRECTLY prove the visions, or the truth of the messages delivered in the visions? No. but given the context, the location, and the circumstances, they are a pretty good evidence that God is at work there, and therefore, that the visions and the messages therein are true.
Thanks for the question!
- MichaelLv 57 years ago
"Christian apologists are saying that atheists are refusing to accept spiritual evidence ?"
What you exactly mean by that ? I would accept any evidence which is demonstrable, repeatable and independently verifiable, because I can't test e.g. someone's personal experience.
"How is anything not of this reality ... evidence ?"
You first have to demonstrate that this additional reality even exists before you can claim to have evidence originating from there ...
- Yorkshire LassLv 67 years ago
I wanted to become a Christian and learned the way to become one by the many testimonies of believers from the testimonies in the Bible to testimonies written in modern books and testimonies of people I met. I believed all these people could not logically be lying, so I took their advice...
One day, I took a step of faith and accepted the Living Lord, as my Saviour and Lord, just like millions before me down the centuries. It was at Pentecost when the life of God's Spirit was given to the first believers, and is still given today assuring the believer of God's Love, faithfulness and power.
Whatever in life you seek you need to use the right tools to find! Faith in God's written promise to forgive us, reconcile us to himself and make us his children are the starting key to open the secrets of God's Kingdom on earth. For the Kingdom is within you once you have embraced Truth. Jesus said -
"I am the Way the Truth and the Light."
We all have the choice to seek, many choose to not bother or pretend that it's all a mighty delusion!... Some mass delusion!
- JimboLv 77 years ago
I am fascinated by people who are so intent on proof of what somebody believes as if such proof would make a bit of difference in how they see the person of belief OR that it would change their minds one tiny bit. There is not actual proof that evolution takes place and yet it's accepted as fact because people believe it to be true and scientifically proved. Not one scientist has been able to cause anything to evolve in a lab setting or otherwise by changing the environment or natural selection of one thing. Yet evolution is the atheists gold standard. And the funny thing is, the only people they argue with is Christians. Show me one debate by an atheist with a Jew or Muslim. Just one, please. Just one.
- tjLv 57 years ago
What apologists are you talking about?
For the apologists who I think are best
William Lane Craig
Lennox and Zacharias are my current favorites, Haven't gotten into Craig or Turek as much yet. But they would go back to physical evidence, both scientific and historical, not spiritual.
which "apologists" are you referring to?
- jojojubiLv 67 years ago
Some atheists are contradictory in their beliefs. They claim that anything that's not physical cannot be real. Yet they also claim to believe in logic. Logic is not physical, you cannot examine it under a microscope, or stub your toe on it. It has always existed, exists now, and will always exist in the future. it is present everywhere, you can't travel to different country where logic doesn't exist. It never changes, what is logical today will be logical tomorrow. All these attributes of logic are attributes of God. The Christian believes that God created the universe in a logical way, and that is why we can understand things scientifically. Atheists really have no reason to believe logic exists, yet they believe it on faith. To me, this is a huge contradiction.