Why AntiSemitism was relatively non-existent in the Muslim worId, until the creation of lsraeI?

[1] Let us be a little more specific, in the "Arab World" rather than in the "Muslim World".

[2] Historically, Muslims have always treated the Jews with more tolerance than the Christians. A fact well known, however nowadays dismissed as hogwash or "Islamist propaganda".

Nevertheless, were one to seek out the << list of Jewish genocides in history >>; the said person would notice that a vast majority of the massacres and genocides were perpetrated by Christians.

What say ye?

[3] Be polite and stick to the topic.

Update:

"The Grand Mufti sided with Hitler way before Israel"

1. And so did the Catholic pope and other Xians during WWII.

2. The differences are:

- Islamic world does not have a pope equivalent, a global representative of all Muslims. A futile attempt at deflection, there are also pictures of the pope and other prominent leaders of the church (RC or otherwise) with the Fuhrer, that does not prove anything.

- Hussani was the mufti of Jerusalem, so whatever he did was for his own country Palestine. Since Jews were displacing the natives from the 1920s onwards, he followed the idea of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", it was a political move. Yes, it is said that he raised an army to defend his homeland with the help of the Nazi. But defending one’s homeland is not a crime.

In theory it is similar as how the French sided with the rebels during American Revolutionary War against the British and helped to establish free America.

- More Muslims fought on the side of

Update 2:

- More Muslims fought on the side of the allies, then for axis. The British Colonial armies of India, Middle East and SE Asia had more Muslims and the same can be said for the French foreign legions.

Update 3:

Pope Pius XII's (1876-1958) actions during the Holocaust remain controversial. For much of the war, he maintained a public front of indifference and remained silent while German atrocities were committed. He refused pleas for help on the grounds of neutrality, while making statements condemning injustices in general. Privately, he sheltered a small number of Jews and spoke to a few select officials, encouraging them to help the Jews.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-s...

Update 4:

Lex: I dislike apes and all who claim their ancestry from apes.

Update 5:

collector:

[1] It was clearly stated that in question that compared to Christians, Muslims were always more tolerant of Jews, but you were the one who brought up the issue of the Hussani and when I refuted that and you wiggled back to “apologetics” and your usual other hokum (I have focused on one and choose to ignore others). Next time before your word plays and puns, probably you should try to grasp the meaning of the words used: RELATIVELY, HISTORICALLY etc.

Update 6:

[2] The Jewish golden age in the middle ages was in the Islamic Spain, not in the Christian Europe. And when the Catholic monarchs expelled all Jews and Moors from Spain, it was Sultan Bayzid (Ottomans) who send ships to carry the Jews back to the Ottoman Empire. Again during WWII Turkey was the one the main exit points for Jews escaping persecution. The grand Imam of Paris provided many Jews with fake Muslim IDs to save them from the Nazis.

Update 7:

[3] In the history of Islamic Caliphate, there were many Jews who occupied high administrative positions, for fundamentally under any government the Jews (and Christians) are protected people. Whilst in Europe the Jews were universally hated for usury.

[4] And as for so called “Mohammadan anti-Semitism”, again you forget two of that his wives were Jews and so were some of his companions (Abdallah ibn Salam and more notably Abu Hurairah).

Update 8:

AND about Truths: Other than ABSOLUTE TRUTHS, every other kind of truth is subjective, relative and is filtered through our experiences.

10 Answers

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  • Anonymous
    7 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Ignore The Collector. When he gets demolished in argumentation (like how he has been brutally demolished here by Sonja), he returns to churning out empty formulated robotic responses.

    - "Mohammadan antisemitism" -- is that why the Prophet defended his Jewish wife when her Jewish heritage was being ridiculed? Your "husband is Muhammad, your father is Aaron, and your uncle is Moses" he (صلى الله عليه وسلم) said to Safiyah to honor her heritage + make her feel proud of her heritage.

    In the Qur'an, the *actions* and the *states* of people are criticized, and the Qur'an criticizes the actions and states of the Bani Israel - on some points even Jewish rabbis have and would agree: breaking the Sabbath, worshiping the golden calf, ungrateful to Moses and God, and so forth.

    The Qur'an even criticizes Muslims on several occasions - "Woe to those who pray..."

    The Qur'an even gently criticizes Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم)!! In Surah Abasa.

    To say that criticism in the Qu'ran equals antisemitism is such a naive argument.

    But the Jewish line is an honored line in the Qur'an ("O Children of Israel, remember the favor I bestowed on you") since it is the line of many prophets including Moses (peace be upon him) - who is mentioned more than 70 times in the Qur'an and Jacob and Joseph and Jesus (peace be upon them all).

    He also keeps churning out The Grand Mufti nonsense, which I still don't have any exact idea what he means. Islam doesn't have The Grand Imam or The Grand Mufti - he speaks in a Catholic tongue pretending that we will understand his distortions.

    Denial/skepticism of the Holocaust is still a relevant issue in many German circles, where the German government had to penalize and ban its denial. It's a recurring issue in many European circles, not only Muslim ones.

    1) It was a dreadful event that happened, and Muslims were part of those who provided refuge and safety to the Jews. Many Jews were hidden and taken to Turkey and other Muslim nations in Europe (such as Albania and Kosovo) which were free of Nazi rule. See: http://www.amazon.com/Besa-Muslims-Saved-Jews-Worl...

    2) Also, Hitler was an ardent believer in Darwinism and Eugenics, and if anything, this shows us the negative implications that science sans morality can have on human society.

    3) It's not a religious issue. Historically, Islamic relations with Jews have been relatively well (even Jewish scholars agree).

    -> Because the Sharia grants them protection as they form 'ahl al-kitab' and there is a SCRIPTURAL BASIS for their protection. They are not left to the whims of the sultans. Look at Spain when the Muslims ruled it and then when "Los Reyes Catolicos" took control - which lead to the Spanish Inquisition, one of the greatest mass murder of Jews committed by Christians. It is also crucial to note that Nazi influence and rule gained stronghold in Christian countries, not Muslim ones.

    -> Muslims never accused - historically as Christians did - of Jews to be evil Christ-killers, as we don't believe Jesus died.

    -> The greatest Jewish scholar Maimonides lived/flourished under Muslim rule and was even influenced by Islamic scholars of the time. Maimonides could speak Arabic better than all of us probably!

    --------------------------

    On the other hand, how much of Zionism is religious-based? Here is an actual doctrine of religious and racial cleansing (which is taking place) that is actually based on a religion (Judaism) which considers its adherents - theologically as well as racially - to be superior to all nations and its goal is to annihilate the innocent so they can claim a land all for their own. "Ishmael was half gentile/half Egyptian while Isaac was pure, he was fully Chosen, fully elite." - this is a very common view among them, while we accept both, and love Ishmael, for he represents the poor, the downtrodden, the neglected, the mixed child who is deserted, and God is with him. "I am with the broken-hearted" as Allah says in Hadith Qudsi.

  • Feivel
    Lv 7
    7 years ago

    Forgot about the pogroms in the late 19th century in pre-state Israel and Safec in 1929 huh? The grand mufti did side with hitler and raised a regiment of Muslim from the Balkans for the Waffen SS.

    The bottom line is that it was ok if Jews had no power and there were not very many of us but in large numbers with any power....that seems to have been intolerable. Let's not forget that the Muslims gave up their own country in 1947-48 because they preferred exterminating the Jews rather than live next door to them.

    So...your premise is faulty.

    EDIT

    @Ramzi-My grandmother was an Egyptian Jew and yes, Maimonides was the physician to Saladin. That does not change history. It is true that Jews fared FAR better in muslim lands than in xian lands in the past but that does not change the current situation. I never tire of hearing muslims trot out Maimonides. I am not slandering Jews. I am stating a fact. As arab nationalism grew, anti-Jewish feelings began running high, which is why the massacre of Jews in Safed in 1929 (before Israel was established) happened. Nazism was rampant in the arab world or at least, I should say nazi writings not nazism itself, during WW2 and as the hatred of the British grew, arab nationalism increased and Zionism took hold during and after the holocaust (and yes, I am a Zionist) by many Jews who would never thought of it before the war. All of these things came together to make the tenderbox that we now call "the middle east" or at least "the Israel/"palestinian" issue".

    So are you too busy learning only about the stuff that makes islam look great and not the stuff that does not reflect well on islam or just too busy trying to re-write history. I think if you will read the transcript from Eichmann's trial (and look at the paper trail) you will see that transport of Jews to "palestine" was not EVER official policy. There is some evidence that Eichmann wanted to make it official policy but hitler wanted the Jews destroyed.

    As for Jews collaborating with nazi's, you are right. Some did. George Soro's openly admits to doing this. It is a sad situation but that is the reality of it.

    @قسمت‌- Right, because clearly it is Jewish people strapping on bombs and going into restaurants, hotels and schools and killing people. Clearly it was not a muslim that killed the Fogel family. Clearly it is not hamas TV that taught hatred of Jews to children using Farfur the mouse. Clearly it is the muslim who have made every concession in the peace talks. Yes, that was sarcasm

  • Rick
    Lv 5
    7 years ago

    To some extent there has always been Anti-Semitism coming from the Muslim Arabs ever since the Jews and Christians rejected Mohammad as a prophet.

    but I think Anti-Semitism is more now prevalent because the Muslim world believes that we are now closer to what they call the “Last Day” (This may be because creation of Israel)

    See the Hadith

    "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews , when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).Sahih Muslim, 41:6985, see also Sahih Muslim, 41:6981, Sahih Muslim, 41:6982, Sahih Muslim, 41:6983, Sahih Muslim, 41:6984, Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:56:791,(Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:177)

    See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitis...

    I think there has always been quite a bit of pressure on any non-Muslims living in or around a Muslims state. I think one of the big aspects of this is that we have better communications and therefore see more.

    Because of verse in the Hadith like this I don’t see how peace can come to the middle east.

    There is something that should be noted. The people of Israel did not take the land from Palestinians. Before the British invaded, the land belonged to the Ottoman Empire. The Palestinians have never really ruled over the land called Palestine. Also the Israelites have always had a presents there. They may not have always ruled over the land but they have been there for around 3500 years.

  • 7 years ago

    Why is it that there is such a massive attempt by Muslims to white wash the history of Muslim oppression of Jews and try to pretend that it was all sunshine and roses for Jews I Islamic countries when that is blatantly false?

    Lets look at a few massacres of Jews by Muslims before Zionism ever existed, and this is an INCOMPLETE list

    Forced forced conversion or expulsion of the Jews from Spain in the 12th century

    The forced conversion or the expulsion of the Jews from Morocco in the 12 th century.

    The 11th century massacre of the Jews in Granada

    The 15th century slaughter of the Jews of Fez, wiping them all out leaving only 11 alive

    The 17th century expulsion of the Jews of Isfahan because they were deemed impure

    The forced conversion of the Bukharan Jews

    The 1834 massacre of all the Jews in Sfarad, 50 years before the Zionist movement ever existed? The 1839 riot in Meshed in which the synagogue was invaded and the Torah scrolls burned

    The incident in 1839 in which Jews in Mershad in Iran were forced to convert

    The 1869 massacre of Jews in Barfursh

    Tthe 1875 massacre of jews in Fez

    As per usual you get some hater accusing Israel of genocide- ignoring the fact that since Israel took control of Gaza and the West Bank the average life expectancy of the Arabs in those areas has INCREASED by 10 years, more hospitals have been built, infant mortality has reduced from 100/1000 to 30/1000- in other words, the exact opposite of a genocide is happening with the Israelis making the Arabs healthier!

    edit: The attempts to white wash Islamic oppression of Jews is hilarious- they try to bring in the fact that there was a Jewish golden age in Spain under Muslims- while ignoring the fact that it ended with the Jews having to flee for their lives, be vonverted or killed! Rambam (Maimonides) who had been the court physician to the Caliph had to flee for his life as he refused to convert to Islam when the Almonihides came to power, and then he had to flee from Morocco when they took power there! Heh, and eve given dates and places they claim no proof has been given. Hmm, maybe they actually expect photographs from centuries ago? LOL

    Maybe we should include the facts of how dhimi were treated by Muslims:

    1) Had to pay much higher taxes than Muslims or be forced to convert to Islam

    2) Were barred from many jobs

    3) Could not be a witness against a Muslim in court which meant that a Muslim could do whatever he liked to a dhimmi- he could steal, rape, kill etc and unless another Muslim and objected saw and objected he could not be prosecuted!

    4) Dhimmi had to wear distinctive clothing- the wearing of a badge to identify Jews was not a new idea of Hitler's, he stole the idea from the Muslims!

    5) Dhimi were not allowed to rode horses

    6) Dhimi were not allowed to sit higher than a Muslim

    Not all of these were enforced at all times, the level of enforcement and oppression varied from time to time and place to place, but oppression of Jews in Islamic countries was very real and anyone trying to claim that Jews lived peacefully and were not oppressed in Islamic countries is just engaging in historical revisionism, especially when they claim anti-Semitism was "relatively non-existent: when it was very much a factor and institutionalised!

    Source(s): Orthodox Jew; Reverend
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  • Anonymous
    7 years ago

    I see there's a lot of Zionist propaganda here. Let's consider what one of the most respected Jews, Zionists and human beings for that matter, Albert Einstein, thought about this matter:

    "Einstein was also aware that widespread anti-Semitism on the part of Arabs was not a historical fact, and that friction between Jews and Arabs was due largely to legitimate fears and grievances on the part of Arabs who faced a host of problems due to the migration of large numbers of Jews to Palestine (many of them with the obvious intention of taking over). Einstein said, "There could be no greater calamity than a permanent discord between us and the Arab people. Despite the great wrong that has been done to us [the Holocaust], we must strive for a just and lasting compromise with the Arab people. Let us recall that in former times no people lived in greater friendship with us than the ancestors of these Arabs."

    http://www.thehypertexts.com/Mysterious_Ways/Alber...

    But of course most these Zionists, being the pushers of hasbara (Zionist propaganda) that they are, will conveniently ignore what this great genius- who was even offered the presidency of Israel in 1952- has just confirmed for us. And allow me to re-post this quote, in case it didn't sink in the first time you read it:

    "Let us recall that in former times no people lived in greater friendship with us than the ancestors of these Arabs"

    - Einstein

    --------------------

    Edit: As for Husseini being aligned with Nazi Germany in order to expel the British, this was not unusual considering that many nations and people were. But many other Palestinians and Arabs were against the Nazis as well. Saad El-Shazzly, the mastermind of the successful Egyptian battleplan in 1973 against Israel, made his name fighting Nazis in Egypt. But something most people ignore is that EVEN ZIONIST JEWS collaborated with the Nazis!

    Avraham Stern was the Zionist leader of the Stern Gang. Israel even commemorated this self-described terrorist in 1978 with a stamp: http://www.executedtoday.com/images/Avraham_Stern_...

    But this great Israeli "hero", unlike Husseni who is relatively unknown to modern Palestinians, was also a Nazi collaborator. He attempted to form an alliance with Adolph Hitler in the hopes Germany would expel the British from Palestine and set up a fascist Jewish state:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FzmvniIUmc

    Youtube thumbnail

    But Stern was not the only Zionist Jew to collaborate with the Nazis. In 1933, Zionist organizations publicly denounced the Jewish boycott of Nazi Germany. In return for the help, Hitler made transport of German Jews to Palestine official Nazi policy. An award winning book detailing their workings together was written by a Jew in 1985:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transfer_Agreemen...

    The Nazis even minted coins featuring BOTH the Swastika and Star of David to commemorate this new Zionist-Nazi pact:

    http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/articles/...

    -------------------

    @ Feivel -

    Aren't you an Egyptian Jew? Is not the case that the greatest Islamic warrior of all time, Saladin, was good friends with an Egyptian Jew? To the point he trusted this Egyptian Jew with his own life by asking him to be his personal physician? Do you know who Maimonides was, or are you too busy slandering Muslims to have learned your own history?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maimonides

  • Anonymous
    7 years ago

    the Jews have a history of causing destruction, mischief and corruption. however, it all started out when Israel stole land from Palestinians and began to commit ruthless genocide of unarmed Palestinian children, women etc using lethal and illegal weapons. and you would think they still have the audacity to play the victim card?

    Professor Francis Boyle on Israeli genocide in Gaza (2010): “What we're seeing in Gaza now, is pretty much slow-motion genocide against the 1.5 million Palestinians who live in Gaza.... If you read the 1948 Genocide Convention, it clearly says that one instance of genocide is the deliberate infliction of conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction of a people in whole or in part. And that's exactly what has been done to Gaza, since the imposition of the blockade by Israel; then the massacre of 1,400 Palestinians, two-thirds of whom were civilians, in Operation Cast Lead. And that also raises the element in the Genocide Convention, of murder, torture, and things of that nature."

    Source(s): Slave of Allah.
  • 7 years ago

    THAT "Israel" was created by men and only done so to give themselves a good name and a good image

    Source(s): "servant of the most merciful"
  • Anonymous
    7 years ago

    thats a good question, because we were living in a harmony before the creation of Israel

  • 7 years ago

    That's a false assumption on your part

    I guess you haven't read the Koran & ahadith thoroughly

    And the creation of Israel has nothing to do with antisemitism

    The hate was preexisting, brush up on history lady

    The Grand Mufti sided with Hitler way before Israel was created

    http://flic.kr/p/fpdLxd

    http://flic.kr/p/fpdLAS

    http://flic.kr/p/foYucM

    http://flic.kr/p/fpdKWN

    Stop trying to revision/rewrite history

    ( and don't delete your Q when you get pwned)

    http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/077.shtml

    http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/02/muslims-duty...

    Do you know what this means?

    "Khaybar Khaybar ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad sa ya'ud."

    @Loveless So the Grand Mufti acted on his own

    and his antisemitism came from within himself

    And I guess the whole Ummah got up in arms

    to rebuke this renegade Mufti for misrepresenting

    Islam right? Just like Muslims nowadays

    vehemently disassociate themselves from radical

    Islam right?

    Peanuts can't get out of the box by themselves I guess

    LOOOOL @Sonja So I'm deflecting away? You contend that Mohammedan

    antisemitism is because of the creation of Israel and a recent phenomenon

    Aren't you just parroting what apologetic and propagandists are saying

    while partaking in a shameful historic revisionism?

    And whether other ppl/instances (point 1) sided with Hitler or not, is irrelevant

    to Islamic or the Mufti's antisemitism, there's just no connection whatsoever

    (and yet you pretend to be soo "logical" lol)

    Sonja you can twist & turn, but you can't hide or sugarcoat the ingrained

    Islamic antisemitism, just accept the facts :)

    Truth stands clear from error, remember?

    Peace

    Source(s): The Collector
  • Anonymous
    7 years ago

    @Muslims, ignore the haters, theyre jealous that Islam has been kept in pristine shape :)

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