Protestants and the Virgin Mary?
A problem most protestants have with Catholics is our devotion to the Virgin Mary. My question is not of Catholic Church authority but rather how can you as protestants respond to my churches teaching. Primarily what is so hard about accepting the Immaculate Conception of Mary? We all agree the Jesus took his devine nature from God and his human nature from Mary. We all agree the Jesus is Holy and pure. The "Word" incarnate on earth. He was both full man and full God. Therefore how can we claim the Jesus is perfect and pure without the stain of sin if he was born from a women (Mary) who has sin. How could the Son of God take flesh from a sinner? How could the "word" dwell inside the womb of a sinner. After all a sinner is under the dominion of Satan. God cannot dwell in the same place as sin which is evil. I think the teaching of the Immaculate Conception which is God preserving Mary from the stain of all Sin so that she could be the perfect vessel "full of Gods grace" to bear God into the world adds to our understanding of Christ's divine nature.
I am interested in your responses?
Please don't say scripture says nothing of it because it says nothing of the Holy Trinity by name and yet it is an essential part of our faith.
- cristoiglesiaLv 77 years agoFavorite Answer
Now let's look at the issue of blessed mother's sinless nature. Consider that when the angel addresses the blessed mother at the annunciation, the greeting is almost a name change:
"Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women" (Luke 1:28, KJV).
Mary (Miriam in Hebrew) means "beloved." In biblical times a person's name reflected what they were. Name changes have great theological significance in the Bible and this is almost as if her name is being changed from "beloved" to "thou that art highly favored." Since this is before Jesus has been conceived, to what is the angel referring? No doubt to her singular devotion to God, forsaking all earthly distractions and desecrations, and the fact that she had been conceived without sin in preparation for this event.
Being conceived without sin does not mean that the blessed mother had no need of a redeemer. In fact, like every descendant of Adam, the blessed mother had vital need of a redeemer. The blessed mother's freedom from original sin was an unmerited gift of God in that she was redeemed by Christ at the moment of her conception. It is at the moment of conception that God creates the soul and hers was created in a state of sanctifying grace. If you had the opportunity to create your mother, wouldn't you make her perfect in every way? This is why there are the doctrines of the perpetual virginity and Immaculate Conception of Mary.
Jesus refers to the blessed mother's sinless nature when He addresses her as "woman" in John 2:4 and 19:26. Today, one looks at Him addressing her in this manner and thinks this is disrespectful or that He is admonishing her. In fact, the blessed mother was not the first sinless woman, Adam's wife was also created sinless. When she was first created, Adam named her "woman" (Genesis 2:23). It was after the fall, when she was no longer sinless, that her name was changed to "Eve" (Genesis 3:20). By referring to the blessed mother as "woman," Jesus is recognizing her sinless nature. Like I said earlier, name changes in Holy Scripture are important.
Fr. JosephSource(s): fiatvolvntastua.blogspot.com
- Anonymous7 years ago
After the Reformation, Martin Luther was an advocate of the perpetual virginity of Mary (I believe that he also advocated the Immaculate Conception.) It's in the Lutheran Book of Concord.
His point of view has been overturned, but you can still find it in the footnotes of "The Book of Concord."
- 7 years ago
You do not put new wine in old wine skins.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Good Luck and God Bless
- Lou GLv 67 years ago
People have this bad way of relating the word virgin to the female virginity only. The Bible is a work of general philosophy and even if it mainly treat human sexual power, it shows us how things become. The word Virigin is related to Virgo and in the 7 + 1 signs of the Zodiac that act in our procreation, Virgo is related to female vagina. I give you a fast insight in the 8 signs of the star of Ishtar. Taurus, bridged pair of male balls or St Luke or Pontius, Aries, standing penis or Jesus, Lucifer, Pharao, or Pilatus, HYRam (the builder of the temple) that reads inverted MarYH, or Maria , Virgo, vagina or Myriam, Aquarius, vaginal tract to the cervix, Libra, the arch of Cervix and fallopian tubes, also called arch of Noah, Scorpio, fallopian tube, Pisces, ovaries, and Cancer, the dead, retracting and hanging penis, betrayed by the sexual libido after orgasm, thus our Judas. The Uterus is lettered by Heh, or H, and the fallopian tubes by Noun, N, thus it is NH, simply Noah. Now back to virgin birth. When you see our nature, all in it, you will find out that all becomes out of a virgin birth. Imagine you buy a large piece of forest with pine trees. Your intention is to plant there oaks, or weed, or build a house. Can you do that? Well, I don't think so, and you will realize soon that you have to destroy and remove what is there first. Once you have done that, created an emptiness, or a virgin space, you can create the new state you desire, you give to your project a virgin birth. Remember that you can never plant anything somewhere where something else is, you have to free the space. Out of nothing, all becomes. You need nothingness, a basic virgin state, to create anything. When do farmers plow the fields? get rid of the old and prepare there field for a new growth? Well, they do that in the month under the sign of Virgo. They create a virgin space for the next season. So, forget all you have been told about a woman that has been virgin and got a child, this can happen, but if it happens, you used the wrong thumb for insemination. A uterus where a child is growing up is taken, so want to use if for a new plant, wait it to be virgin again, since it is the field of life of GOD, Shaddai Al Chai.
Now, SIN, this word designs in Hebrew, Arabic, the MOON. Mount Sinai is the mountain of the Moon. In the Greek NT the word is inverted and reads IANIS, and that is St John, the head of the uterus. The moon regulates the menstruation cycle of a woman in 28 days. This is why woman is related to the moon in Kabbalah. The moon and the morning star, male penis, Lucifer, that is referred to Venus (the conquest of the woman by man), are the symbols of Islam. Venus is the first star on heaven in the morning, that is why the standing penis at that time we wake up, points to it and gave him the name light bearer. Islam is Isis and Lamed, mother of creation and the scale, since Lam, or Lamed, are the letters that design Libra, the big arch. Once the big arch does it's job, the placenta, the womb, or the big flood will occur and our child enters Genesis, the last 7 month, 6 of creation and one rest month. Then the world, our human body becomes reality, a mortal being. Mortal means in Greek Patmos, and thus, St John, the head of uterus is the Scorpion, or the Eagle of Patmos. The Eagle symbolizes power of decision among life and death, in Zodiac it is Scorpio. He stitches the nature by poison in autumn and the nature dies in the North. The Bible is a triple walk trough the Zodiac, in astrology by Jesus the prophet, in astronomy by Jesus being a symbol of our sun, and in procreation by the story of Jesus crucified on the mountain of cycles, Galagata. A Gilgal is a cycle, Galgata is the mountain of cycles, also called Sinai, or Ararat, what means Holy Land. Moses, is M SH H, Water, Fire, and Nothingness, thus the river of sexual water interaction, the sexual fire, and the uterus. A conception becomes allways by 3 things, a positive, a negative and a neutral one. In conception, male, female, and the ovary. IN aramaic, the letters are Guimel, G, symbol of the camel, Daleth, D, the door, and Heh, H, the nothingness. Call that Penis, Vagina, Uterus, GDH, or GOD. In an atom this trinity is Nothingness, Resonance, Gravity, NRG, Energy. Only by connection of 2 poles in a neutral medium, energy is flowing to power what ever it is, that energy is GOD. It can not be seen, not be spoken to, not speak, not think, and can only give you power, you can't give anything back to it. What is energy, what is GOD, well it simply IS what it IS, it IS all that exists, No energy, no existence, it's that simple.
Only by reading the symbols, knowing the metaphoric symbolism, the rhetoric, and the number values of every letter, you are able to "read" the books, the kabbalist works of human philosophy. The Bible is the teaching of Lucifer, since it treats up to 85% his behavior, human sexuality.
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- TolstoyevskyLv 77 years ago
You have a good heart, and the Good Shepherd does try to save the 100th lost sheep when 99 are already saved.
On the other hand, God didn't try to reason with satan to keep him from leaving.
- MoiLv 77 years ago
Jesus quite simply had no stain of sin because he was obedient to his Father God. it had nothing to do with his mother. Jesus was clearly tempted just as we are - but without sin
Hbr 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
He chose not to sin - and you can too
Mary was an admitted sinner
Luk 1:46 ¶ And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
Luk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Luk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
Luk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy [is] his name.
- Anonymous7 years ago
Well yes, I will say the BIble does not say Mary was without sin when she had Jesus.
Therefore I will not assume she was without sin.
Yes, Mary was blessed. After all, what an honor to give birth to the Christ. However, Jesus said his mother, brothers, and sisters are those who follow God's commandments.
We don't say Hail Mary's because we like to focus on Jesus Christ the Son of the Most High.
Likewise we don't say Hail Paul or Hail Peter either.
- PaulLv 57 years ago
This is Typical thinking of Catholics who do not read the Bible.
If Mary had to be sinless to keep Jesus sinless then Mary's mother, grandmother, great grandmother ALL had to be sinless to keep Mary sinless.
But if God was able to keep Mary sinless while her mother was a sinner then God DID have the power to keep Jesus sinless while Mary was a sinner.
Also in Romans the Holy Spirit clearly says Mary was a sinner and in Hebrews the Holy Spirit says only Jesus Christ was sinless, not Jesus and Mary.
Next time before you teach the false teachings of the Catholic Church, take the time to actually read the Bible and see what the Holy Spirit says first!
- 7 years ago
The sin nature in man is passed down through the man. Man is the authoritative factor of sin in the human race. It is passed through the sperm:
Romans 5:12 (KJV)
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
This does not preclude Mary's sin nature in herself passed on through her father when she was conceived, nor does this mean Mary was sinless. She herself declares her need of a Savior and salvation:
Luke 1:46-47 (KJV)
46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Mary's contribution to Israel's Messiah was providing the human aspect of Jesus the man. The Deific aspect was provided by the Spirit of God who overshadowed Mary and was later found with child. The Spirit of God provided the Deific attribute of He who is known as Christ. Thus, Jesus (man) Christ (God) is born into the world.
Mary was not under the "dominion of Satan" for she declares herself as member of the Covenant and "handmaiden OF THE LORD," not Satan.
Jesus indeed dwelled in the place of sin. He took upon Himself the sin of God's elect on the cross did He not? This was His purpose and mission being sent of God into the world.
Also, the Doctrine of the Trinity did not find full expression until the Advent of the Son (Christ).Source(s): Bible
- tebone0315Lv 77 years ago
But the thing is Scripture does say Mary was sinless. Mary was born without sin, and she remained free from sin her entire life.
With Mary, God granted — out of His own good pleasure — all of His grace to Mary.
Because of God's decision to create a daughter who did not carry the guilt of Eve, Mary was born sinless. Because of her own daily decisions, she remained sinless.
As soon as Adam and Eve sinned, God started a plan to undo the damage, a plan that included Mary:
"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel" (Genesis 3:15 NIV).
Now why would He do this? In fact, who else in the Bible, besides Mary, was ever declared to be full of God’s grace? The answer: no one! Only Mary was declared “full of grace.”
So we need to look at the Old Covenant to understand why the Lord HAD to do this to Mary!
Do you remember the Ark of the Covenant? What was in the Ark? The 10 Commandments. Are not the 10 Commandments the Word of the Lord? What happened to people who in sinfulness touched the Ark of the Covenant with the Word of God in it? They died!
Now it is impossible to be anything but reasonable in reviewing this fact and applying it to the New Covenant. Is Jesus the Word of God? Is Jesus sinless and holy? Who is going to carry Jesus in Her womb?
If Mary has sin in Her, what will happen when God infuses His Holy Spirit in Her and the Word of God takes residence in Her womb? Wouldn’t She be consumed like those who touched the Ark of the Covenant?
Since Mary is going to carry the Word of God within Her for nine months as the New Ark of the Covenant, She CANNOT have sin within Her or She will be consumed by the Holy Spirit!
In addition, in order for Jesus NOT to inherit Original Sin, God stopped this generational process in Mary so that the Blood Jesus receives from Her is PURE and untainted with sin.
What does Mary say about herself in the Bible?
Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, says "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Lk 1:43) This passage gives us a title for Mary. She is "mother of my Lord." Some Evangelicals ask "why do you call Mary the Mother of God?" It is because Scripture says so and simply because Jesus was God and she was his mother. Mary clearly spells out her role in eternity in Luke 1:46-49
"Mary needed a savior." Catholics agree Mary needed a Savior. She was saved by her Son. And she was his mother too. Luke 1:46-49
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.
So her role is to magnify the Lord and rejoice in God her Saviour. In Scripture Mary says, "My soul magnifies the Lord." A soul is eternal. It is forever. I think it is important that she said "my soul." It is an eternal statement. Mary reinforces this in the same Bible passage by saying "all generations will call me blessed." I don't think Mary's role ended with the birth of Jesus. I would suggest it is unbiblical to say that Mary's soul does not "magnify the Lord." She is to be "lowly" and humble (which she is). We also have been called upon to do something: to call her blessed. This is for all generations, all people and especially all Christians, not just a few little old Catholic ladies.
Catholic Christian †