Wing Chun forms usless?
Just started WC 2 weeks ago and they taught me forms. How does it help? It looks weird and I don't see how it will help in combat/martial arts. Any experienced martial artist at WC that can explain to me why the forms are the way they are?
Keyboard Warrior- I saw in my school some of the more advanced students doing some actually proper sparring (moving around and all) and you say that if an art doesn't have proper sparring (aliveness or whatever you said) it is fraudent but WC apparently does have some proper sparring?
- 7 years agoFavorite Answer
Bud I do not do WC. But I'll tell you this. Your forms are your foundation. They will teach you transitions with balance and control. They will teach you power and fluidity. All martial arts has forms. Except. Mma You will not use these forms as an attack but rather as ideas to use for attack and defense. Each movement is its own. Listen again. Each movement is its own. They put them together in a fluid way to learn these movements. As you advance so shall the techs and movements. Each is designed for specific purposes and utilization. Hope you understand this.
I don't claim to have all the answers. Just like to share and learn knowledge. Train Hard/Win Easy
- Jas KeyLv 67 years ago
I think of the forms as a text book. If you have a teacher and partners in front of you then learning and training with them will be the best way to practice. However once you are home or have a short term leave where you won’t have an instructor and a partner the forms becomes your best source of learning.
Think of the forms also not as a preplanned battle tactics, but as a math text book. You’ll learn 2+3=5, 5+3-2=6, and that 5*2+3-4=9. Will you use these exactly as they are? You’ll add 2 apples and 3 oranges to get 5 fruits, but you won’t have to add 5 apples to 3 oranges then take out 2 apples to get 6 fruits so much. But the idea is to train the most basics and more likely so that when faced with a new situations then you’ll know the principles by heart and come up with brand new solutions to questions you never have been asked.
- Anonymous7 years ago
OK these forms may look useless but they are your bases for different attacks, blocks and chi i've studied Wing Chun for five years now and even though i'm 17, forms are what needed to be taught otherwise your stance and posture will be off balance these are what my instructor taught me "if you can do 1 form without error and by yourself you are ready to learn but if not in a month there is not point in teaching you this style" and with that i have a boosted confidence also to mention these forms especially the first form teaches breathing and controlling chi in which can bring more power and using you whole body weight more in attacks and blocks so yeah that's what i think anyway i hope this helps and if you realize this style was made by a woman so you can take down larger opponents and was named after the creators first student (a little history there for you)
- 7 years ago
The first fact you should know is that forms or kata is not fighting.
The first form - Sil Nim Tao teaches about your centerline. Each move is done on both sides of the body because Wing Chun uses both sides of the body to engage in combat. It is the most important form.
The stance is NOT for fighting. It's a neutral stance. Sil Nim Tao may looks ridiculously simple (Wing Chun is meant to be simple), yet it can be extremely hard to understand. That is why you ask your teacher "What is this move for?" If the teacher cannot answer such a question, he/she is bad teacher.
The hard part is doing the form PERFECTLY! From the every beginning, your knees should align with the toes, but not bent any further or you'll hurt your knees.
When you do each move, you focus entirely on your ELBOW! It's always the elbow. The elbow sinking and inward (Don't exaggerate),
Shoulders pinned down (So if your shoulders hurt, then you did it wrong)!
Align your head as if it's being pulled up by a string.
Normally, your spine has a natural "S" curve, but if you do it correctly, your spine should be straight.
And a bunch of little minor details......etc
The second form is Chum Kiu - it teaches you how to take your centerline and move it. You learn how to shift, you lean how to take a step forward, you learn how to kick, how to contact your opponent (Building the bridge) and you learn how to use both hands together.
Your body should not lean forward or back, as if you're trying to perform it with a glass of water on your head. Your body should not bounce up and down when shifting. It should be smooth.
The third form - Biu Jee - it teaches you emergency moves if you screw up, it introduces new techniques such as thrusts to the eyes/throat, and elbow strikes.
Before Biu Jee, you're often taught the wooden dummy form, where you practice on a solid object, getting the correct angle and introduce new moves.
The main point of forms is that it allows you to practice alone of all the moves that Wing Chun has to offer and constantly reminds you of the basic concepts and principles such as Shoulders/elbows sinks, don't lean forward or back, centerline.
You can test if your structure is correct by having a partner push you as you try to take a step forward.
But forms are not everything, Wing Chun has drills, Chi Sau, sparring, weapons.
But forms are completely useless if you are clueless of what the movement is even for. Therefore, you ask your teacher "What is this move for?"
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- EvaLv 44 years ago
It's not how fast you do it at all. In fact you'll get more out of it if you practice it slow and MAKE SURE you're doing ALL of the movements exactly how they are taught. Wing Chun is not very forgiving. You're either doing it very well, or just plain wrong. There's no in between. If you go too fast you'll be practicing wrong, which is very bad. You cannot perfect something, without perfect practice i was told by my instructor, Scott Baker. If you can do it flawless and add speed then by all means do that, but doing it right is always more important than doing it fast.
- KrypteianLv 57 years ago
People will tend to say that it is the fighter and not the art, and they aren't wrong. But my speculation is: fighter > training method > art. They're all undeniable factors. The art may not be as important but training methodology is an integral part of most arts and may determine a good school from a bad one. A mcdojo will teach you forms and katas without competitive and hard sparring. Things like learning distance, footwork, timing, effective deflection/evasion techniques, active coordination, technical refinement, etc, aren't taught by solely using forms.
- BBQPitLv 47 years ago
What are the rules of the "proper sparring" ? If the punches and kicks are pulled, then that's not real sparring; that gives you a false sense of your own abilities...
As for the forms, I don't think Keyboard Warrior is totally correct, but he's not entirely wrong either.
Kata won't make you a great fighter. If you were preparing for a fight, then Kata would probably be low on your priority list of things to work on. But Kata can help you improv your fighting ability in a more rounabout way: it builds coordination, balance, speed, proper technique--all of which helps in a real fight.
Then one could argue that there are hidden applications within the Kata and while this is true, you're better off just practicing proven fighting methods rather than dissect Kata to look for something that may or may not be there.
- 7 years ago
I just have to stand up for traditional martial arts on this one. I am a practitioner of soo bahk do and asked myself that same question. We call forms hyungs and I wondered why I would use hyung In a fight. Well you wouldn't and probably shouldn't :) they are to force you to take the time to understand every move and technique, to make each individual move a second nature for your brain. So when you are attacked with a hammer fist or triple punch, your mind will be prepared to utilize the necessary block and do so quickly and effectively.
Now with that said, if your school only does forms as a means of practice you may want to consider a different teacher. Sparring is just as important as practicing forms, using your sudos and punches with and without a partner.
Finally, I want to leave you with a little more advice. Stick with wing chun, don't give into the MMA mentality. The point of martial arts is to protect yourself with the appropriate amount of response, not kill or maim your opponent. The bigger man should deter his opponent, not injure him. MMA teaches you to inflict damage but not control it. I can honestly say I have defended myself multiple times with odd looking wrist grabs, stepping side kicks, and double neck chops. I have never felt the need to hurt someone more than needed due to years of practice and discipline. But if you are truly intent on hurting others, or fighting competitively, go MMA
- KokoroLv 77 years ago
Ignore kw, everything to him is fake. He will never understand forms
Forms are your style. Everything you need is inside the forms from all your strikes to all the grappling and footwork
Without forms it will no longer be wing chun
There are several stages to learning form the more advance stages you will learn to use the movements in sparingSource(s): 30+yrs ma
- 7 years ago
Keyboard Warrior does not have any room to be talking bad about any martial art. If he had any B**** he would shut up and go run his mouth in front of Kokoro, Karate Dave, Pugpaws, Darth S, or Ohioguy. His days of stupid confrontation would be over.
Notice that KW never responds to anyone saying he should just go prove his many comments to the regulars mentioned. He has ignored all suggestions that he put up or shut up. Did he not say in his profile that he lives in Atlanta? Pugpaws lives near there. Why not have a go with Pugpaws?
Edit Just as I said, KW has not responded.