How is the concept of The Trinity supported by logical evidence?
With all due respect to my Christian brothers and sisters, but it just doesn't respond to the mind at all.
Doesn't the concept of monotheism state that god is one alone, with no partners sharing attributes with him? Moreover, he is the only superior, the only all knowing, the only unseen and most importantly the infinite with no physical attributes given to him or bounded to a limited space?
Isn't god greater than the universe? That being said, when Christians say that god is in the form of human and given physical attributes, then they are stating that the universe is greater than god which contradicts one of the main concepts of monotheism.
Also, why does god himself need to send himself down in the form of a human being to earth? Why can't he just send a messenger from the heavens to the earth instead? Wasn't Moses a messenger and a prophet that god sent? Why didn't god send himself down as moses before jesus? What is so signifanct about Jesus as opposed to moses.
And lastly, if god died for our sins, does that mean whatever sin I commit throughout my entire life I will be forgiven for it? That being said will god forgive me if I murder, oppress, steal and cause destruction?
Christians , please shed some light. My intentions are only to learn so don't take it the wrong way. :)
- Anonymous8 years agoFavorite Answer
All 3 Abrahamic faiths believe in ＭＯＮＯＴＨＥＩＳＭ (unity of God).
The тrιɴιтy concept in Christianity ɢøeѕ αɢαιɴѕт мøɴøтнeιѕм:
Jesus = God , in mathematics, this can be expressed as:
X1 = X2
If X2 was greater than X1 then they would not be equal:
X1 ≠ X2
Jesus [peace be upon him] says in the Bible: "...the Father is ƓƦЄƛƬЄƦ than I..." (John 14:28)
If God is greater than Jesus then:
Jesus ≠ God
So we've established using simple mathematics that Jesus [peace be upon him] is not God.
мαтнeмαтιcѕ ɢoeѕ нαɴd ιɴ нαɴd wιтн loɢιc so to say we cannot develop an understanding of God with logic is in itself nonsenical as God bought about:
☛ Our brains (for intellectual use)
So why put the above aside when understanding God? ^( '-' )^
Simple maths: １＋１＋１＝３
While the Trinity is: １＋１＋１＝１
This is refuted by: １ｘ１ｘ１＝１
If you have infront of you 3 notes of [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ιοο̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] and I ask you to count how many you have infront of you, will you work it out by saying 1x1x1=1
i.e. [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ιοο̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] x [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ιοο̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] x [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ιοο̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] = [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ιοο̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] ?
If you do then I would ♥love♥ to do business with you! ☜(*▽*)☞
So why drop all logic when it applies to the Creator? ๏̯͡๏
❝The reason the trinity concept is hard to understand is because no one understands the power of God.❞ Although we cannot comprehensively understand God, this is unfortunately a sneaky way out of the illogical doctrine of the Trinity. The reason the trinity concept is hard to understand is because it is illogical; no other reason. It is important to note that Judaism rejects this doctrine as it is an attack on monotheism (and so does Jesus [peace be upon him]).
❝Say not ‘Trinity’: desist: It will be better for you for God is one God.❞ Quran [4:171]
God coming in the form of a man:
■ Universe becomes greater than God
■ Does God eat food?
■ As a man, God excreted, can you imagine an All-Powerful God taking a dump?
Christians will say, ❝God can do whatever He wants, who are you to say what God can and cannot do?❞
You must understand that some things ＩＴ ＩＳ ＮＯＴ ＢＥＦＩＴＴＩＮＧ ＦＯＲ ＧＯＤ ＴＯ ＤＯe.g:
¿ Can God stop being God?
¿ Can God create a rock He cannot lift?
It is like asking for a 3 sided square ☐!
❝It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: therefore serve Him; this is the Straight Way.❞ Quran [19:35-36]
Indeed God has sent messengers to earth warning and guiding mankind to the truth of pure monotheism (25 are mentioned in the Quran), including:
[peace be upon them all]
✞Jesus did not come to die for people's sins:
ᴊᴇѕυѕ ιѕ ѕιɴʟᴇѕѕ, ᴡнʏ ᴡᴏυʟᴅ ɢᴏᴅ ʟᴇт α ѕιɴʟᴇѕѕ мαɴ ѕυғғᴇʀ вʀυтαʟʟʏ ғᴏʀ тнᴇ ɢυιʟтʏ? ιѕ тнιѕ ғαιʀ? ಥ_ಥ
✞If Jesus' death and acceptance is the only way to salvation then how did those before him (including Moses) get Allah's acceptance? This is proof that the alleged Jesus' resurrection was not needed.
✞ The Christian claim that the miracle of Jesus arising from the dead is proof that he is God. However there are many miracles performed by Moses as well. Proof: Miracles does not make one God.
Look at the miracles done by Jesus [peace be upon him] in the Quran and realise these miracles were done by God's permission:
❝And (make him Jesus) a messenger to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission.❞ Quran [3:49]
Similarly the miraculous birth of Jesus Christ [peace be upon him] was another miracle:
❝She (Mary) said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord said, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It is a matter (so) decreed.❞ Quran [19:20-21]
Many Messengers of God did miracles, this dιd ɴoт make them Gods.
Jesus [peace be upon him] is described by Christians as fully God & fully Man, "who has an eternal infinite divine nature and a created finite human nature", this is illogical as if someone is fully Man then he ceases to be fully God, you cannot be finite and infitite at the same time! <('o'<)Source(s): Top 10 Reasons Why Jesus is not God http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW99U4JWNEc ❝Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!❞ Quran [5:75] ι αdvιѕe yoυ тo reαd тнe qυrαɴ αɴd мαĸe α wιѕe cнoιce! (｡◕‿◕｡)
- Anonymous8 years ago
The reason the trinity concept is hard to understand is because no one understands the power of God. To say God can't seperate himself into a physical being and a spiritual one will still being God is to say you know what God can and cannot do.
why does god himself need to send himself down in the form of a human being to earth? Why can't he just send a messenger from the heavens to the earth instead?
He did and most of them were rejected and killed. Even Jesus was rejected and killed, but rose again, proving himself to be God.
f god died for our sins, does that mean whatever sin I commit throughout my entire life I will be forgiven for it? That being said will god forgive me if I murder, oppress, steal and cause destruction?
If you honestly want to be forgiven and are really sorry for what you did. You don't have to convince a priest or minister, only God
- Anonymous8 years ago
Christians believe God is one divine nature shared by three persons (Father Son Holy Spirit). This means that God is an eternal communion of Love. The Father is the first person of the Trinity. He Has knowledge of Himself, the Father generates by his mind this self-knowledge in the form of His Son, the second person of the Trinity. The Father and the Son love each other, so this spirates the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit. The Trinity means that within the being of God, He knows and loves Himself eternally.
When God (the Son) took on a human nature in the incarnation, we do not believe the universe became greater than God. God remained infinite even though He united to Himself a finite human nature. We believe that Jesus is a divine person( God the Son) who has an eternal infinite divine nature and a created finite human nature.
The Father sent the Son to earth for two reasons: the first was to set humanity free from the slavery of sin and conquer death. This is something no prophet could do. The second reason was to adopt humans as Gods sons and daughters by being united to Gods only Son. By Jesus obedience to death, Jesus heals humanity of the damage caused by disobedience(sin) and by Jesus resurrection, He makes it possible for humans to share in Gods life, to be adopted sons and daughters. Jesus sacrifice once and for all atones or makes up for our sins to God. It does not mean you have a free pass to sin, but whenever you sin, repentance should follow. God bless
- ?Lv 78 years ago
It's simple. The Bible is a collection of books written by people. The problem with a collection of books written by lots of different people is that you then have to try to tie different strands together.
So, here's the issue facing the early Christians ... you have a collection of books that tell you there is one God. This God is not mortal. And you also have books where the point is that God became human to live among us and die for our sins. There is no need for a duality or even a trinity. All you have to do is say 'God became human'.
But you're also trying to spread your new religion through the world. Many of the people you're trying to convert to your new religion are polytheists. So you modify your monotheistic religion to become a pseudo-polytheistic one to keep everyone happy. And now you have a religion with three 'gods' but one god ...
It was only in the 3rd century AD that Christians started talking about the Trinity, and it was only established in Christian doctrine at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. In other words, the Trinity was added to Christianity three centuries after Jesus.
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- no1home2dayLv 78 years ago
Okay - you say that the concept of the trinity is not supported by logical evidence, fine. But what about the Biblical evidence!
If you understood everything there was to know about God, He wouldn't be much of a God, now would He? I mean, if God were so small that your puny mind could understand Him, that would be an idol you set up in your own mind, not God.
First, the Hebrew word for "one" in the Hebrew Scriptures is "Echod", which is a unity of one, like one bunch of bananas, etc.
Second, the Hebrew word for "God" in the Hebrew Scriptures is "Elohim", which is a pleural word. (The singular form of the word is "Eloheinu", and while it is true that the Jews use "Eloheinu" instead of "Elohim", that is their own doing, but in the Bible, it is ALWAYS "Elohim" when referring to God.)
Third, when God said "Let US make man in OUR own image, after OUR own likeness", He was NOT speaking of angels, because angels were not created in the image of God - WE were created in the image of God.
And the fact that we humans are tri-une, only proves that God, whose image we were created in, is tri-une.
I am (have) a body, a soul, and a spirit. The body is clearly NOT the soul, nor is the spirit the same as the body. I am tri-une, and if you are NOT tri-une, then you are not a human, just an animal, because animals are 2-dimensional, without a spirit.
God sent Himself because He is the ONLY one big enough to die for the sins of all mankind. Any man can die for his own sins, but if EVERY man were to die for their own sins, then NO body would go to heaven. So God became a man. (Yes, I realize this is a mystery - but God is bigger than your puny mind, and if there were no mysteries about God, He wouldn't be God, now would He?)
Jesus was unique in that His Spirit was God's Holy Spirit, and also because he was not conceived the way Moses was. Moses was conceived the same as everyone else, in which a man implanted the woman, and an egg was fertilized. With Jesus, Mary's egg was NOT fertilized by a man; rather, God simply commanded, and the egg began to grow without the aid of a man. Her egg was not fertilized, but miraculously started growing. That makes Jesus unique among all men, more than a mere messenger, but the very nature of God manifest in human form, but because of His flesh, Jesus was physically limited as we are, so because of His body, He got hungry and tired, and had to eliminate bodily wastes just as you and I do, because the body was human.
Lastly, if God died (let's change that to "SINCE" God died for our sins), then you're conclusion is accurate. HOWEVER, that having been said, God requires that we repent of our sins.
What that means is, while God now has a legal loophole to allow sinful humans into heaven, He has a moral obligation.
God cannot allow sin into heaven. God MUST judge sin - ALL sin - no matter how small it may seem to us. If God does NOT judge sin, then heaven would quickly become as morally corrupt as earth, and infinitely more so.
God will throw ALL sins into hell where they belong.
Here is the caveat (and no, it is NOT in "fine print"). Jesus clearly said that who ever commits sin is a slave to sin. But He also said that whom the Son sets free shall truly be free indeed.
So, the question is, when God throws YOUR sins into hell (where they belong), will you still be its slave? If you are - if you have not released your sins by the power of Jesus Christ, then those very same sins that YOU hold on to here on earth, will hold on to YOU, and they will drag you, kicking and screaming, all the way into hell with them.
God is offering to forgive you, cleanse you of all unrighteousness, and free you from the power Sin has over you. That is because of what Jesus did when He died.
But if you reject that offer, and you hold on to your sins, then you give God no choice, because He will NOT allow sin into heaven.
Now, the ball is in YOUR court, and you need to do something with it.
- RibatLv 58 years ago
Trinity is an illogical theory that was made by Romans 100 years after Jesus' departure. It makes no sense at all. God.
- Sheltie LoverLv 78 years ago
There is no logical evidence to support the Trinity doctrine.
It is a convoluted concept, put forth by the Church in Rome when it was very much influenced by the Pagan religions of Rome.
Not supported by the Bible, or any of the early scholars.
- FirestormLv 68 years ago
The Gospel of John, chapter 1, verses 1-5 reads thus:
1IN THE BEGINNING was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.
2HE was in the beginning with God.
3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. (end quote, emphasis mine)
Let's break this down. First of all, the first verse of John 1 says that In the BEGINNING was the Word. What does that mean? Simply put, it means that the Word (note the capitalizing of Word) did not have a cause or an origin, but simply was at the beginning. Some will tell you that the term word simply refers to God's will or command, but in the latter half of verse 1 specifically states that the Word IS God. How can the Word simultaneously be WITH God and BE God if this does not refer to some other part of the trinity?
Verse 2 states it plainly: "HE was with God in the beginning..." HE... The apostle John actually identifies the word as a personage. Who could this be but Jesus Christ?
The idea that the Godhead consists of one deity in the form of three personages (Father, Son, Spirit) is FURTHER supported in the Genesis account of creation.
Genesis chapter 1, starting in verse 26 reads:
26Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Look at verse 26 again. "Let us make man in Our image." This seems to actually be a conversation taking place between more than a single individual. Yet Verse 27 tells us that HE created man in HIS image. Back to the singular. Who is this other person? John 1, verse 3 actually answers that question for us:
John 1:3- All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
All things came into being through Him, through the Word, through Jesus Christ. If Jesus is not God, how can He have had a part in the creation?
John 1, verses 14-17 go further:
14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"
16For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.
17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. (end quote)
This statement tells us that the Word BECAME Flesh. John the Baptist, who himself was known to be a prophet of God stated of Jesus, "This is he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me'!" John CLEARLY recognized the deity and eternal nature of Jesus, so why should there be any doubt?
There are a lot more proofs such as these, Hebrews, Revelation, and Romans are good places to start, places where Jesus Christ is identified as God and as the Son of God. The trinity is a hard concept to understand. We know that there is one God, yet He exists as three separate, yet co-equal personages... How can this be? It is simply a mystery, one of the great things beyond our understanding.
What I DO know is that the Scripture makes it clear that Jesus IS God, and IS the Son of God. He is the Word made Flesh, who died to atone for our sins, and who rose again to give us everlasting life. I'll leave you with a link below so you can do some study of your own. :)
- 8 years ago
nothing written in the original texts supports a trinity doctrine.
once the translators with their own religious beliefs originating from ancient babylon clouding their judgement got to work they introduced their slant into our versions of the bible contrary to Messiah's warnings of the consequences - revelation 22:18-19
however there is enough escaped through their interference to glean the truth for those that study the bible diligently.
- Anonymous8 years ago
its based on poor math skills