Question for Church of the Latter Day Saints, Mormons!?
This is a honest question to an encounter I had with two Mormons that knocked on my door.
I will always be kind to anyone that wants to talk to me about their religion, so as one of Jehovah's witnesses I had a good chat with you guys and listened as well as asked questions. But I am still perplexed at the way the conversation went when I bought up the subject of WAR!
I am in the UK, and the 2 Mormons were from the USA
This is how it went:
Me: If you converted me today and then went back to the USA after you had done your 2 year stint, then the US and the UK went to war over something, you would be prepared to put on a uniform and come back to the UK and kill me the person you just converted, the one you call "brother" and shoot me if your government asked you too?
Mormon: Well it says in the Bible that we must "obey the secular authorities". (which is correct)
Me: Yes that is correct, but let me ask you another question, "what if the secular authorities" said
"you must drink tea and coffee"
Mormon: No, we would not do that!
Me: Do you not think that they got it a bit back to front, killing a brother in the faith because the secular authorities say so, but disobeying the same authorities if they told you to drink tea and coffee because it goes against you belief?
They were a bit stumped for words and could not really answer that!
I am not trying to be argumentative here, but just wanted to see what you thought of this!
There is a article about a guy that was raised as a Mormon and had the same issue, see:
@ Craig O........I did not say that they were Kids. So are Mormons saying that the church teaches that it is a matter of conscience ? I did not seem to get a conclusive answer!
@ rac....... I can's see that happening today on a battler field, I mean what do you do have some way to identify those that are Mormon ? I am sorry but I can't see that happening these days, so you could end up killing someone you are related to in the faith, Mmmmmm........!
- 7 years agoFavorite Answer
That's really crazy to think that someone would try to convert you, then the next minute they would kill you over satans government commands, thats definately someone you would want to trust! What a joke! I guess they think Jehovah favors one country over another, I thought he wasn't partial?! War doesn't solve anything at all, but makes people insane after they come back from war, thats if they even make it back alive. That goes to show thats Satans doings, not Jehovahs. The only real war worth fighting for is Jehovahs real war, the reigious wars!
- racLv 77 years ago
This scenario was played out in the WWII European theatre. We actually did have missionaries from USA fighting against soldiers from Germany that they had baptized. In the stories I read, both parties refused to fire at each other and got into trouble with their respective armies for refusing to shoot. Those "brothers" were willing to put their lives on the line for their "brother" in the gospel.
I believe the same would happen today.
Yes, the general rule is to be subject to civil authority and to honor and obey the law. However, if the law goes against the commands of God, we will fight against the bad law until the last appeal has been exhausted. Thus, when the U.S. said we could not practice polygamy, we fought it to the Supreme Court until the last appeal was lost. Then we were forced to comply and God told the prophet that he would hold the government responsible for our inability to obey. Likewise, if the government were to order us to violate the word of wisdom, we would not comply until the last appeal was exhausted. Personally, I don't believe that will ever happen. They cannot tell us what to drink or not drink. The 18th and 21st amendments to the constitution already tested that scenario.
So, to answer your question, we would follow the rules of the gospel unless the laws of the land forced us to do otherwise. Even then we could choose to obey God instead of man and suffer the mortal consequences of our choice.Source(s): my LDS opinion
- Anonymous7 years ago
The Bible says that Christians should obey God before man. No JW has ever killed another JW in war, nor have they killed anyone else. If everyone lived as JWs do, there would be peace on earth. The Bible says that an identifying mark of true Christians is the love they would have among themselves.
Something else to think about: We get accused on this site of being robots who all think alike. Someone found fault with us on this site, because no matter where on the earth we are studying the same Watchtower article or singing the same song at our Sunday service. Terry is in England and I am in America but this Sunday we will be studying the same Watchtower.
The Bible actually commands Christians to be "fitly united in the same line of thought" and that we should all speak in agreement. Some see that as a fault yet they are willing to kill their spiritual brother.
- TarxusLv 47 years ago
Terry - How interesting of you to be asking questions of Mormons this time. Nothing wrong with that. I quite often answer questions people have about us here on Yahoo. First of all I want you to know that some of the questions I have asked about your religion is because like many others I'm just curious about how you view certain things. The things I ask here on Yahoo are questions I would gladly ask any Jehovah Witnesses that came by my doorstep. The few times I've actually had them in my home we have always parted friends (I even had one tell me I was one of the nicest people he had ever proselyted). I think it's interesting how we both share an identical disbelief in the trinity (a popular Christian concept).
I want you to know that I have made a conscientious decision to limit how often I ask or answer questions about you as I realize I had been annoying some of you. And as a special gift I'll go ahead and unblock you. Have a nice day.
Edit: Oh yes, I saw that link you provided. Just for the record we too have apostates in our church. We don't shun them though.
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- JorgieGirl<4Lv 47 years ago
Terry: Thank you for the link I will read it.
My husband a long time ago in another state asked two young Mormon men the same question, but with the emphasis on them. He said, " Ok you two are Christian brothers, right"? and they agreed.
The he said, "Would you kill your German brothers if there were another war with US and Germany"? One said, "No."
The other young man said, "I would have to...we have to obey the civil authorities"! And the one who said no, could hardly believe him and said, "You would kill ME"? Then my husband explained what the scriptures said. "Learn war no more..."
Human philosophy has constantly led to hatred and bloodshed among nations and peoples. Ecclesiastes 8:9 rightly states: “Man has dominated man to his injury.” And the underlying reason for this is found at Jeremiah 10:23, where God’s Word says: “To earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” No, God did not create humans to run their affairs successfully, independent of him. They were not given this capacity. All history has proved that.
Now, as individuals, we cannot change what the leaders of the nations do as they repeat the tragedies of the past, nor are we authorized to try to persuade them to take a certain course. But we do not have to be swept up into their conflicts and become part of them. Jesus said of his followers: “They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.” (John 17:14) To avoid becoming part of this world’s conflicts, we must let God’s Word, the Bible—not the shifting sands of human philosophy—guide our lives.—Matthew 7:24-27; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17. quoted from the webpage article below:Source(s): Common sense and God's word
- 7 years ago
In the specific case of the two young men who knocked on your door, I think the best answer is: these are nice but inexperienced (perhaps naive) guys who weren't prepared to provide spot answers to ethical dilemmas.
There is no mandate for Mormons to stop thinking, though many non-Mormons believe there is. Give the kids a couple of years to grow up and they might give you better answers. There is probably an equal chance that they might not; there is no mandate that Mormons think, either, in spite of what René Descartes might have believed.Source(s): You could find more about ethical dilemmas here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
- NeerpLv 77 years ago
It is a simple answer, really.
There is NEVER a time when there is a need to drink tea or coffee. Never. Therefore if the secular authorities say to do so, we do not do so.
There are, however, times when it is necessary to put on a uniform and go out and kill others. This is done to protect our families, our society, and our country. Therefore if the secular authorities say to do so, we do so.
- palmermom3Lv 67 years ago
While we are taught to obey the secular authorities, I ALWAYS have a choice as to whether or not I do. Just as with things in the church, I can choose to follow and obey, or not. What I can not choose is the result of my choices. IF the governemnt cam to me and told me that a new law had passed and I was required to drink coffee and tea, then I would choose not to, because I don't like them. What they choose to do about I can not choose, but just accept.
- AmmonLv 77 years ago
If the secular authorities tell you to do anything that is a sin, then you don't have to do it. Indeed you are obligated not to do that.
Before entering the military or doing things that endanger the life of others while in the military, a person should pray to God fervently to know whether what they are doing is right.
Is the war that they are being told to participate in Constitutional??? Is the lives that they are tasked to take, the lives that God wants that person to take???
If not, then a person should not be a soldier, nor should they participate in that kind of war. Unless God approves of you killing, only then should a person kill. If there is any other way to accomplish the task that God tasks you with, without killing someone, then killing should be avoided at all costs.
Just because there have been some few just wars in the past in history, and some few countries that have gone to war only to defend their wives and their children and other innocent people, that does not mean that the next war is necessarily a good war to be a part of.
War is no excuse for killing the innocent. Murdering in war is still murdering.
Nevertheless the Bible and The Book Of Mormon Another Testament Of Jesus Christ make it clear that under certain circumstances when a society is defending itself, then war to do that is acceptable to God, and that is not murder, because it is for defense only.
The individual himself is personally eternally responsible for taking life or not taking life. To allow your wife and daughters to be raped and tortured and murdered because you will not put up organized resistance, which is another name for warfare, is cowardice.
To attack other Nations and other groups of people without just cause, and without specific orders from God, that is just as evil.
When God says take a life, then take a life. When God says do not take a life, even if it means your own death, then you must not take a life.
God is the one who commands, humans, if they love God, they are the ones who should obey.
Therefor it is extremely important to be close to God, by keeping the commandments of Jesus Christ, this can be facilitated.
Abraham was commanded by God to slay his son on an alter. Abraham was obedient to that command. Abraham was then commanded to not slay Isaac his son on an alter. Abraham was again obedient to God.
When God commands His true followers obey. Prayer, which is communication with God, is the key to all important knowledge, including knowledge that will save your eternal soul from complete destruction.
If you follow God's commands, then your soul will be saved, and you will go to the highest Heaven that there is, and you will dwell with Jesus Christ in perfect happiness for all eternal time. And your happiness will be endless happiness. And your happiness will be infinite and eternal happiness as well.
- Anonymous7 years ago
I've had those same conversations on doorsteps on my mission.
I'm from the UK but grew up in the US. My grandpa was in the RAF and was a Dunkirk evacuee in WWII, my other grandpa was captured in the Philippines and was lucky to survive the death march.
Death and war are nasty things - but we owe our freedom to those who have fought.
As for having to shoot a brother - aren't we all brothers?
Is it worse for me to shoot another Mormon or to shoot a JW or an Atheist? One might argue that it's better to kill a man prepared to meet God.
Now, you've got to admit that your analogy is a bit far fetched - I wouldn't fight in a war that wasn't for my own freedom. I served in Italy and I'm from London - if either place threatened the freedom of my family I would pull a trigger for the sake of my freedoms and I wouldn't care who that person was.
All are alike unto God - so while the realities of war are nasty why is taking the life of one man more familiar to you worse than another man who also has parents and a family?
EDIT - The day will come in which Christ's love will cause men to beat their swords into plowshares - and IF ALL MEN would follow God in any Christian religion the world would be a wonderful place - but the reality of this fallen world is that until the time that Christ comes to reign again we live in imperfection and make the best of those situations.
While I respect those who are peacemakers, I respect those who fought for our freedoms as well.
Neither the JW or LDS religions would exist had the US not fought the UK for independence and freedoms, I'm a citizen of both nations and support the efforts of both - but to condemn all war due to your religion to me seems to be a contradiction as your religion is a product of freedoms gained by others sacrifices.