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Anonymous asked in Politics & GovernmentMilitary · 8 years ago

Whole entire american civil war armies combined vs the whole army of spartans?

The north and the south combined vs the whole entire spartan army? The civil war armies went back in time to fight the spartans. The civil war armies have better weapons, but the spartans never back down and they have better strategy.

Who do you think would win?

Update:

@Ksteven, we are just pretending.

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  • Steven
    Lv 5
    8 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Does not take a genius to draw up a scenario on this one,do not get me wrong,I am a Spartan supporter and my military question & answer club is called "The Phalanx".The Spartans in their prime numbered about 10,000 Hoplites,they augumented their numbers with Helot slaves that they promised freedom or land to any that served along with the hoplites,sometimes the Helots were pressed into service but were watched very close.The Spartans also had various allies that would serve with them from time to time,but in this case say the entire Spartan army mobilized and put their maximum number of 10,000 in the field.You didn't specify the number of Civil War troops,did you mean both the North & South and if you ment the entire Union Army,what year,the numbers changed as the need arose.The Union Army was relativley small until President Lincoln called on 75,000 volunteers to put down the sucession of the Confederate States,soon after he authorized 500,000 volunteers in 1861.Lets go with the original call for volunteers of 75,000,depending on the terrain of which this conflict would take place would not change the outcome.Even with 75,000 Union Troops all equipped with Muskets with fixed bayonets and all with 60 rounds of mini-ball would deploy over a large area,this number of troops is equivelent to 6 Divisions or 2 complete Corps,I assume they could not bring their Artillery Detachment with them,you didn't say what they could bring to the engagment.The Union Army would deploy skirmishers,that was standard procedure,I'm thinking they would put out 500 skirmishers in a loose formatiom stretching across the entire front of their 6 Divisions.The Spartans,not being familiar with Union Troops with muskets would deploy in their standard Phalanxes,each phalanx of Spartans was 8 hoplites deep and maybe 8 to 16 hoplites wide,this would change as the need arose or as the Greek General deemed necessary to cover his front.With a maximum effort of 10,000 Spartans this would spread out into roughly 78 phalanxes,very rarely did the entire Spartan Army deploy so its hard to imagine the final formation the Spartan General would call for.The Battle of Plataea was one battle when the entire Spartan Army mobilized and it was about 10,000 hoplites plus 35,000 Helots,you specified Spartans so I'm thinking full citizen soldiers which at the time numbered 10,000.The Spartans would not advance right away,usually they eye ball their opponents for a time,the Union skirmishers would deploy right away and would advance until the Spartans would be within range of their muskets(about 300 yards),they would commence firing at will,no volley firing as of yet.Now here is the question that everybody must be thinking,would the Greek Aspis or Hoplon take a .58 round from the Union Musket at 300 yards,the Hoplon was of wood construction overlaid with Bronze,I can't say it would absorbe a .58 round at 200-300 yards.As soon as the Union skirmishers would open fire,the question is would the Spartans retreat? NO,I think they would not understand the weapon they faced but that it was another weapon that killed from a distance like the bow and arrow,the Spartans hated the bows and arrows,they thought it was cowardly to use such a weapon.I think the Spartans would advance,maybe somebody has tried putting a .58 round through a heavy shield like a Hoplon,lets say just for this scenario they Hoplon took the round and the Spartan Phalanxes advanced.Each skirmisher had about 60 rounds,if this is incorrect please let me know,with 500 skirmishers thats about 30,000 rounds,Spartans will go down,their body armor will not protect them and their Hoplons will not stop all of the Union rounds.The best the Spartans can hope for is to close with the Union troops and make it a Dory against a musket with bayonet battle,the Spartan can also use his Xiphos at close quarters and also his Kopis if he gets in side the Union troopers bayonet thrust.I'm sorry to say if the Spartan phalanxes were able to get through the skirmishers they would then have to face the volley fire from large formations of Union troops with their Springfield .58 cal.Muskets,the spartans hope of closing with the main body of Union soldiers would not happen,all would parish because the Spartans will never retreat and will fight to the last man.Casualty list in this battle is 10,000 Spartans KIA and the Union Army would suffer about 1,000 KIA and 500 WIA,this would be an overwhelming Union victory.One thought,if you said that these armies would meet and the Union troopers found their cartridge pouch empty,different outcome maybe but the fact still remains that the entire Spartan Army was always about 10,000,more or less without employing their Helot slaves.How about 10,000 Spartans vs 10,000 Union or Confederate troops with no ammo,just their muskets and bayonets,I may see a Spartan victory then,anybody else see it differently?

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  • 8 years ago

    Probably the Spartans because without a supply chain a modern army is pretty useless after weeks or a month- or two.

    WHY would two opposing armies go back in time to fight their own history?

    Edit to add:

    Hey, just asking...

    @ Question-

    Spartans weren't stupid, if the modern army didn't win the first battle, the Spartans would recognize that those logs-that-thunder-and-shoot-magic can't shoot higher than 20' and rocks and enough trees stop them...so we'll start fighting where they can't use them.

    Then they'd realize that those Thunder-sticks can throw a rock 200 yards, but it takes (the time of) five flights of our arrows to reload them....AND a good size board will stop them

    ...lets back-up and regroup, BTW, have we got any diseased corpses we can throw upriver from their encampment?

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  • 8 years ago

    In Greece? Probably the civil war guys still, canons would devastate the Spartans lines leaving openings for cavalry men and foot soldiers, they would of course have supply wagons with them and probably be able to win in a matter of weeks before their ammo and food ran out depending on what kind of campaign it was. Plus since back then the majority were country boys they would know how to live off the land.

    EDIT

    Even then it's not that hard to set up barricades, like dismantle a few wagons, set them up near the canons so they can reload under cover. And even then they still might have one or 2 mortars with them. Plus some will desert because they might think they are fighting the gods.

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  • Krak
    Lv 5
    8 years ago

    First and foremost. Spartans, although arguably the greatest warriors in history, backed down,even in their prime time. (Wars with Messenia were long and Spartans were at the brink of civil war, wars with Tegea were devastating, battle of Fetters for example, with Argos as well, battle of Hysiae for example).

    Archaic Greek wars, which is the time of the famous Spartans we know (not the same force from Peloponnesian wars for example) had almost no strategy. And most importantly HAD NO PHALANX in Alexander the Great era meaning of the word. No such precise rank file cohesion, no order. It was pretty much a free fight (as we can see from the complete lack of evidence about any phalanx type formation, while he earliest possible indications come not before Xenophon...and yet many individual awards for skill and bravery are seen in Tyrtaios, Homer and Herodotus..and cease by the time around and after Xenophon).

    Spartans were just better equipped, better trained and had better pshychology, mind set (as seen from Tyrtaios poems) than others.

    Regardless of the facts, cannons and guns would defeat any ancient army. It doesn't matter that they are used by some Yankee peasants.

    Now, the history lesson, the hardcore version.

    ''Steven'' I am sorry, but if you didn't claim to be an expert, I would have never made any remarks on your answer.Maybe.

    --- The Spartans in their prime numbered about 10,000 Hoplites--- this goes for all of the 10.000 claims.

    8000 according to Herodotus. Our earliest source.

    ---Helot slaves that they promised freedom or land to any that served along with the hoplites---

    Happened only after 420 BC, when they appeared as Neodamodeis, which is after prime time of the Spartan system.

    Helots weren't slaves.

    --- standard Phalanxes---

    There was no standard phalanx deployment for the Spartans, or any other Greeks, especially as a battle formation, before late Classical or even Hellenistic times. And we are probably to take Spartans from the time of their greatest strength, around Thermopylae battle era.

    --very rarely did the entire Spartan Army deploy ---

    More precisely, never.

    ---The Battle of Plataea was one battle when the entire Spartan Army mobilized...10000 hoplites---

    No. Since they weren't all Spartan. It was ,according to Herodotus in Hdt. 9.28.2, 5000 Spartans of those 10000. So other 5000 were usual periokoi hoplites.

    ---usually they eye ball their opponents for a time,---

    Say what??

    --Aspis or Hoplon--

    Aspis is not the same as hoplon. Hopla is the term for ''all arms and armor'', or more literary equipment, so hoplon could be helmet, breastplate, spear or a sword.

    --wood construction overlaid with Bronze--

    Most usually though, especially until late Classical times, it was overlayed with leather, with bronze symbol.

    --also his Kopis--

    Not a weapon of choice at the time, in Sparta

    --Spartans will never retreat --

    In comic book or movie, yet they did in Tegea in c580-565 B.C. when Tegeans proved to be tougher than expected, or at the siege of Samos 522 B.C, when they gave up the attempts to breach the walls of the city, or at Phalerum - 511 B.C., when they were raided by cavalry, to name the examples that fall in their prime time (not the examples from before such as Messenian wars or Argive wars, or later, such as Peloponnesian war)

    --the fact still remains that Spartan Army was always about 10,000,--

    If we take 10.000 to be 8.000, which is an actual source, it is again untrue. What is more, it was usually a lot less, since Spartans,as medieval knights, were a small but elite % of Lakedaimonian army..anyway, it was certainly never more than 2/3 of the entire force.

    Now if you represent your military question & answer club, I strongly recommend reading further into the subject. Especially about phalanx (P.Krentz for example)

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  • Anonymous
    4 years ago

    Well we didn't need any where that number to to Kick The REDCOAT a**es out of America...

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