Jehovah's Witness Governing Body NOW says they are 'the faithful and discreet slave'?
•What does this mean as to their claim that there has always been a 'slave' since 33CE?
•If Russell was not considered a part of the 'faithful slave' then how does that affect many doctrines preceeding 1919?
Yesterday at the annual shareholders meeting members of the Governing Body gave talks about this NEW doctrine. See a report of notes taken here:
@For Captain: Rutherford invented the term 'faithful and discreet slave CLASS' which was (until yesterday) considered to be all the 'remnant' of the 144,000 spirit anointed christians alive at any one time. Thus no body of eight men could lay claim to actually being that 'slave'. In fact the term governing body really was not even formalized by the 'organization' until 1971. Since then the term when published by the society now is Governing Body in caps. Apparently what the jw leaders are now saying is that the only 'faithful slave' ever identified and functioned only from the year 1919 when Jesus approved Rutherford and his minions.
@For Suzy and other newer jw:
This doctrine of the "faithful and discreet slave class" is puzzling both to active (if honest with themselves) and former members. Merely because of the obvious contradictions of the simple observation of its application in day to day life of individual members of the 'class' of anointed ones.
Both my mother and father and all of their immediate Jw family members were of this "faithful and discreet slave class", in fact they lived at Bethel during the very time this class was supposedly 'sealed on earth'
Both my parents acknowledged that they personally had never contributed to the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses, nor did they know any of their immediate families who had ever done so.
I challenge any active jw who may personally know a professed member of this 'anointed class' who will admit that they have ever taught or even been consulted on any current or past Jw doctrine.
Now I will qualify this
...... with a couple of exceptions any who are related to current or past 'governing body' members, Nathan Knorr, Fred Franz, Joseph F. Rutherford, Charles Taze Russell, or any of the 'anointed' members of the Writing Dept at Bethel.
With these remote exceptions, I can positively guarantee that no member of 'the anointed faithful and discreet slave class' can point to any personal or even collective teachings that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has ever published or even promoted.
Now having said that. The question is how can you claim to believe a doctrine, that is unsupportable by observation and practice?
Just another claim that cannot be proven one iota as 'truth'
So NOW the governing body facing the reality of having no explanation for the above challenges...decides to declare that it never really meant a CLASS of anointed Christians, but simply meant them and them alone. Does that help Suzy?
@For Big Guy..Rutherford died in 1942 but does not really change anything regarding your excellent comments.
@@ For Suzy,,The best way to answer your question is with a question. What possible benefit would Jesus words have to those alive and listening to his words: Matthew 24:45
45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant,(AW) whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? "
If the application of this parable had only one fulfillment in the year 1919, what possible reason would any of those listeners 2000 years ago have for taking his words to heart? Is it not more reasonable to read the context of his warnings about being aware, alert, to the coming fall of Jeruselem in Ad 70 to be "LIKE" the very common understanding of how valuable a 'faithful and wise servant' is to any household that owns one.
Thus it is very easy to understand just what Jesus was saying. It had nothing to do with a prophecy of pointing to the 20th century. It had everything to do with individuals who would act like 'wise ser
....servants' and prepare and listen to the warnings. Nothing in scripture allows for any organization to even make a claim regarding Jesus words as prophetic. Otherwise his words spoken had no import no meaning to those he was training to be christian.
It was a parable to help those listeners understand the importance of being a trusted christian servant paying attention to all the signs of end.
If you interpret Jesus words to mean one particular organization in one particular "generation" (like Jw have done) you are faced with two problems. Jesus said no one would know when he was returning, no one would know except God himself. Jw have now had to change their doctrine regarding Mathew 24 at least 6 times now just because of the passage of time.
In conclusion then: Jesus never meant his words to point to a religious organization, but simply to emphasize the importance of being LIKE a faithful and wise servant.
@Jesse...thanks for your comment. I was fed up with their self righteous posturing and arrogance over 30 years ago. I have had time to reflect on why they act out like one of the posters on this question. They are filled with doubts and fear about their standing with Jehovah. Constant pressure to perform from door to door, prepare for meetings, give talks, dress appropriately, smile and make good with members that in a REAL life, not cult, they would have nothing to do with. Forced worship of God is bound to leave the worshiper unfilled. That is why they act like petulant children resorting to taunting and name calling anyone not responding positively to their message. So I understand what you are seeing and feeling.
- Anonymous8 years agoFavorite Answer
As a former JW I am surprised that many 'holding fast'
witnesses continue to remain on this sinking "Ship of
With the GB calling remaining 'anointed' as mentally
incapable to decide God's direction in a 'Question from
Readers' is in fact, one sin! As Jesus said "whatever you
do (or say) to the least of my brothers I will do to you"!
Now that the GB as INSULTED 'anointed' ones as
mentally ill surely Jesus as no option but to show them up
as being mentally ill too?! Lead them out to graze as mad
cows in a field (of embarrassment) so all can laugh at them as
God did with king Nebuchadnezzar for being overly proud
and lofty in nature against God.
Secondly, these doctrinal changes bring even more confusion,
insecurities and importantly, more questions???
Which goes completely against what the bible says will
happen and previously what the Watchtower claimed was
its primary reason for change in previous doctrinal amendments.
Namely, that the bright light will get brighter towards the end
of satan's system. 'Truth' will become even more clear to
understand AND accept as being from God.
Where as, these doctrinal changes are sending the Watchtower
org' further into darkness! Understanding is becoming more
complex and more difficult to understand from a 'rank & file'
publishers viewpoint! Hence, the bright light of the WT org is
If jws continue to accept these 'mindless' changes as 'truth'
they have proven how seriously damaging they have become
mind controlled by the WT org's GB!
They need to go out and get fresh spiritual air and seriously
consider the fatal outcome if they stay aboard this demonically
steered ship to destruction.
- Big Guy 360Lv 68 years ago
conundrum Now don't you feel two inches tall. Danman is talking from experience not from some website or from some other material that you consider apostate. OH, and by the way, the Faithful and discreet slave is the Body of Christians know as the church with Jesus as our head, who is our Master. So when the Master comes... Where will you be? You open that door but you can't seem to find the gate can you? You will try and go over the wall. Let me know how that works for you.
Suzanne- Your right The term: faithful and discreet slave does comes from the bible. But the term "faithful and discreet slave class" does not and is made up or as Danman stated invented by Judge Rutherford. There are not two classes of Christians, however there are, in a sense, two classes of people. Those that are saved and those that are not, the righteous and the unrighteous, the believers and the unbelievers, the good and the bad, the good and the wicked. Are you getting the picture here? I can't speak from experience as Danman can but I am very familiar with this history. The Judge took over this religion known as Bible Students back then in a hostile takeover and he ran with it. Never mind the truth, what ever worked and made money. The Judge had absolutely no problems spending it. He ran this with an iron fist and it was his way or the highway. C.T. Russell would disagree with the Judge, if he were alive, as he never stated this, but he was called the Faithful and discreet slave yet never did he dispute that post. But when the Judge took over he created his own ideals and even projected his own dates, the 1925 date for example. One in which came and went without incident and the Judge stated he would never do that again. But the Judge did cling to the 1874 date as the invisible presence of Jesus theme. It was not until 1933 when the 1914 date was put out there. Did you know the Judge died in 1932? One year later this religion started a new direction, new times new dates new explanations and new excuses but never taking any blame for anything false, the buck for that was always past somewhere else. The whole religion was just one big con game for the judge and has spun out of control. With many spin doctors along the way.
danman - you are so correct, my bad. I stand corrected. The dates are he died in 1942 and in 1943 the 1914 date was official.
"In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free." This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man's existence into the decade of the 1970's. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia. Page 324 of the above book positively says: "The King's presence or parousia began in 1914."" God's Kingdom on a Thousand Years Has Approached p.209
It was talked about in the late 1930's but never was presented as an offical date. Russell and Rutherford went to their graves thinking it was 1874.
- 8 years ago
Wow, where do we start?
The further along the JWs come, the more the whole thing resembles a legal entity - a business who's only concern is expansion and control. Taking the anointed out of the equation makes it easier to have power. The further along they come the more they resemble Catholic papacy and just another religion!
"We're in charge here, shut up and listen!"
In the past, it was possible for the anointed to discuss matters with the GB (as they were also considered "feeders" too). They've basically had to admit they never listened to the anointed anyway.
Everything we witness throughout the JW history is no coincidence - it is predictable when MAN trys to take power and control - they trip up and embarrass themselves. When men take the principles of the bible and turn them into laws and creeds (and even turn parables into fundamental doctrine etc), they make a fool out of themselves.
Once they said that Russell (a monarch) was the FDS, then Rutherford said the FDS was a group (him and his team), then they said that the FDS were the GB when it was established in the 70's (and by extension the anointed too), NOW they say ONLY the GB are the FDS. Their sense of self importance is astounding - the apostles are no longer considered part of the FDS, THEY are!
It's CLEAR this is just men taking a stab in the dark. This is not new light or spirit direction, it's confusion. It would be acceptable if it weren't for the fact they are so dogmatic/absolute and claim to be the only ones with God's approval.
What does the bible teach?
Col 2:6-8 So then, just as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, continue to live in him. For you have been rooted in him and are being built up and strengthened in the faith, just as you were taught, while you overflow with thanksgiving. See to it that no one enslaves you through philosophy and empty deceit according to human tradition, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Matt 20:25-26 But Jesus, calling them to him, said: “YOU know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them and the great men wield authority over them. This is not the way among YOU; but whoever wants to become great among YOU must be YOUR minister."
1 Cor 4:8 You are already filled. You have already become rich. You have come to reign without us. Yes, and I wish that you did reign, that we also might reign with you.
Matthew 23:10 Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.
People who shun fleshly government/ruler-ship/man-made religion and build their "religion" upon faith, and upon Jesus' teachings will be firmly grounded ("the house built upon the rock mass").
How much authority exactly is this FDS untitled to? According to Matt 24 they are supposed to be SLAVES/SERVANTS! Jesus told us what a servant should do - feed/serve/support/direct by example/put others first etc. The slave does not have sovereignty ("going beyond Gods word", making up creeds/policies etc by which exclusive devotion is a must otherwise be "damned").
Conundrum, you (and the JW org) are just like the religious leaders of Jesus day. They couldn't see the spiritual value but would rather study in minute detail the scriptures (becoming "wise in their own eyes" and "puffed up") - John 5:39
JWs think that by interpreting precisely what this or that scripture means, somehow this will please God. They can't see the forest for the trees. They magnify the details and drown out the principles. They "strain the gnat, but swallow the camel".
Parables were PARABLES. They were only meant to get a point across (often the same point but through different parables/angles), not studied minutely. If you don't see them as GENERAL things, you become just like the Pharisees who were so meticulous that by the time Jesus was here on earth, there were over 600 laws on how to observe the Sabbath!
The faithful slave parable is just another angle on the other parables that follow (e.g. Matt. 25). The (general) point Jesus was making is that some on earth would take the spiritual lead ("Peter...feed my sheep"), increasing the flock (investment parable) and helping people make spiritual progress (food parable) and the importance of being spiritually ready (oil parable).
- 8 years ago
NOW? Well I have only been a witness for coming up to 14 years and happen to know that this is OLD news as far as I am concerned!!!
The term: faithful and discreet slave comes from the bible actually - NOT made up by our founder!! Matthew 24: 45-51.
Edit: Th faithful and discreet slave are not made up of ALL the anointed class if this was so, then it would be quite impossible since, some are now in heaven and others are still on earth and yet more have not had their calling yet. So that is why if your parents are the anointed, why they would not have been taking direct part in this role. I happen to know a few anointed and they also are just as we ie doing all the same activities which include, receiving the watchtower and awakes etc.
Perhaps you could explain to me what the bible means by faithful and discreet slave?
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- 8 years ago
I see that conundrum is displaying the now famous YA jw personality. Seething with frustration and contempt, barely able to restrain himself from overt use of profanity.
I believe we are witnessing the collapse of confidence and faith in they're beloved organization. Not to mention the ridiculous presumption that Jesus parable of the "faithful and discreet slave" parable had anything to do with predicting an organization to fulfill that teaching as if it was prophetic. Jesus says nothing to indicate that the jw have any claim to even suggesting that is what he meant.
That does NOT take a genius to figure out.
- 8 years ago
Watch.....they will give you the wall they have been taught to put up in there meetings , but this article will still be in the back of there minds. Jehovah's Witnesses pride themselves on unity and slam true Christians for being divided, but as time has shown, they are obviously no more unified than any other Christian church. And yes, JW's please.....take that as an insult. I am so tired of the JW's and how they walk around town slamming down Jesus and his true disciples, all the while getting there panties in a knot when we approach them with the inconsistencies of there beloved and "perfect" organization. If Christendom is so bad, they are just as bad or worse. They are no better off than us, and its about time they got of there self righteous chairs and realize it. If these answers and attitudes are from real Jehovah's Witnesses, then you know they have an anger problem, and when poked just right, the lava will flow.
As for the question, true Christians know that the witness organization is false and a abomination to our God, and that he will deal with all those who have chosen to follow Satan and his false deceptions of religions.
And I am not apologetic for any of the above I said. I am not sorry. Jesus demands we stand for truth, and to succumb to pressure from satanic false religions is to betray Jesus MY king. False religion needs to be put in its place, Lord Jesus and my God, my ONLY God, please come and bring your everlasting reign of peace!
Edited: As a true follower of Christ, why should I or any other believer, put up with the bashing of our beliefs by the witnesses, but they think they are the truth and therefore do bot put up with others calling them out? And this is not a matter of turning furniture cheek, this is a matter of who's side are you on? Jesus himself would not want a disciple who would not fight for him.
- LeonardLv 78 years ago
Tell me something more about this faithful slave.
Does she have round, firm breasts and buttocks, but slender and dainty hands and feet, and large, shining doe-like eyes that seem to say 'What do you command, my Master?' with a combination of submissive apprehension and longing anticipation, while she moves her supple, honey-tanned body just so her long tresses seem to ripple down her naked back like a golden waterfall and her chains tinkle like musical chimes?
And if not, what the hell are you wasting my time for?
Okay, are none of you bothered by the term "slave"? A slave can't be faithful anyway. A slave serves because he has to - his opinion or desire does not matter, he is a chattel. An employee can be faithful, because he serves in freedom. (Or relative freedom, given the economic climate).
Why would anyone compare themselves to a slave in this context? Isn't that an implicit accusation?
- .Lv 68 years ago
back in the days, that was the teachings. when I was mislead by the jws thats what the belief was then. They always thought the GB was the fds. who else was dictating the printing presses and feeding them untruths?
its sad to see people so deceived & mislead, arrogant, self righteous, and self appointed, dictating lives of others, judging others, spiritually handicapping the masses.
- I TryLv 68 years ago
It is just further proof of the extent of this CULT.
Read this letter from them.....
- 8 years ago
I always thought the Governing body were the 'faithful slave'.