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Anonymous
Anonymous asked in Society & CultureReligion & Spirituality · 9 years ago

Bible Scholars, and those who know, can you explain John 6:53-58 in light of...?

Mat. 4:4, Jer, 15:16 and John 1:1-2 & 14? What I'm wondering about is that Jesus' words bring life, and it seems to me that feeding on his word is what he is talking about, although I know the Catholics view it as the actual body and blood of Jesus in the Eurcharist. I've never been Catholic or seen it that way. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin, so how does this relate to it all? Thanks.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2...

Update:

My church does have communion, but it this ALL about communion or does it have another meaning or a deeper meaning? Thanks. We con't have communion often as the Catholics do.

Update 2:

Since life is in the words of Jesus, wouldn't the constant communion some churches have be over-reaching the significance of communion? We can ask forgiveness at any time.

John 6:63 (KJV)

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Update 3:

Leonah, it seems you misunderstood me. Did you read the whole thing? Thanks for responding.

10 Answers

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  • 9 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Communion is a man-made tradition.

    Jesus told Peter to feed my sheep, 3 times, feed them what? Feed them every word he spoke, because the words he spoke where not his own words, they were the words of Him (the Father) who sent him.

    Jesus said,

    49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

    50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. John 12:49-50 (KJV)

    John 1:1 is the word of God the Father, and John 1:14 is saying that the seed used to create the flesh body of Jesus inside Mary was that seed of God the Father.

    To eat the flesh and drink the blood of Jesus is to eat and drink the words he spoke because those words are meat indeed, food for the SPIRIT.

    TRUTH as spoken in John 1:14 and 17 is saying that the words Jesus spoke are the Truth and that the words spoken by Moses are LIES

    Jesus tells you that the words Moses spoke were LIES in John 6:32-67. Jesus told this fact again in John 4:21-22'

    In John 1:18 and John 5:37 Jesus tells the world as plainly as can be that Moses is a LIAR, and than backs up his claim with more fact in John 10:8 and Luke 24:25.

    Jesus could not have put it more directly than John 3:14.

    Jesus even went as far as to tell you what the darkness actually was in John 3:19-21 and Moses backed up Jesus claim in Exodus 20:21

    ----------------------

    only the 12 apostles were told to break bread and drink wine as a memorial to Jesus, the multitude were never told to do this.

    .

    Source(s): The Holy Ghost and the Spirit of Truth
  • ?
    Lv 5
    9 years ago

    In John 6:52 the people that are listening to him start complaining and say to each other,

    "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

    Then they go on to say, " “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?” And then says, "Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?"

    Notice that Jesus didn't tell the people that what they were thinking was wrong. If they were wrong about it Jesus would have set them straight. So the fact that they wondered how Jesus was meaning it as His own flesh yet Jesus didn't correct them to say that it was LIKE His flesh or a SYMBOL of His flesh, means He was saying it really was His flesh.

    Know too that this was a teaching from the very beginning of church history. St. Ignatius was a student of St. John the apostle and St' Ignatius has writings using the word Eucharist as meaning the true body of Christ.

    St. Ignatius (ca110ad) "They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ..."

  • 9 years ago

    There is deeper meaning in everything.

    Jesus is the bread of life as per Jer 15:16, and also we see the Israelites were fed daily with manna as they travelled across the desert: symbolic of living by faith and prayer and living upon the word of god.

    The communion or sacrament is symbolic of many things. First it is that we remember he bled and died for us and we should remember the atonement. Two: we must partake of the bread of life often, which prepares us to be cleansed by the blood, hence the bread is first which is symbolic that fist we must study the gospel through scriptures and prayer, and afterwards we are cleansed.

    Transubstantiation is a philosophy of man.

    Btw. I don't think the frequency is relevant. What's necessary is that we don't forget him. And also it must be done in sincerity.

    Now ask what Moses's tabernacle is symbolic of...

  • 9 years ago

    I don't think the Jews considered God's word to be figurative or cutesy. They slaughtered a lamb and painted their homes with the Lamb's blood and ate the lamb whether they liked lamb or not. Nothing artsy. God ordered animal blood sacrifice, and the Chosen People complied.

    At Passover in Jerusalem, Jesus was a fully compliant member of the Chosen People -- albeit one who made the government of the Chosen People itchy because he was in the process of replacing their governing body with the Catholic Church and opening it up to ALL people.

    To signify a New Covenant to replace the Old Covenant, Jesus chose the simplest communal activity on earth. Eating and drinking. Around the Sacrament of the Eucharist, a catholic Church of believers grew into what we know today as the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodoxy (the Catholic Church remnants that survived Islam in the eastern realms of the Roman Empire that were either conquered or threated by Muslim forces for centuries and were too far away for contemporary communications to keep it in step with Rome). God chose a backwater of the Roman Empire for the establishment of his Church on earth. The purpose of the Chosen People was realized in the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the paschal lamb. The Chosen People became ALL people, much to the constiirnation of Jews who were arguing beyond belief about Scripture during Christ's days and even up to two centuries after the Catholic Church began and thrived under Roman persecution.

    So Jesus performed yet another miracle, the very simple one of uniting heaven and earth through the Eucharist. You are reading passages that amplify the purpose of the Catholic celebration of the Liturgy of the Word, comprising the first half of the typical Catholic Mass, which culminates with the Liturgy of the Eucharist. You can't just talk the talk. You have to walk the walk. Liturgy is talking the talk. Eucharist is walking the walk. If the Chosen People hadn't done blood sacrifice, the angels of death would've killed their child. Read your Bible. The Old Testament prefigures the New Testament. And early Church Fathers have covered this subject better than anyone 2,000 years removed from the actual event. You may want to look there instead of on Yahoo to support your faith.

    Unless you want to support personal prejudices, which is what you give the appearance of doing. That's common in American Christianity. It's an opinion free-for-all. Meanwhile, the Catholic Church comprises the bulk of Christianity in the world, does the lions share by far of true charity work, is the largest church in the United States with 70 million members and growing, and isn't going to be swayed by opinionating. You either get with the program or you get left behind where other Catholics will be trying to help you get on board. It's like an ocean. Waves are constantly going by you, and you sit there on your board and watch them without ever getting up and surfing.

    So learn about the Eucharist, which is REAL food. If God had meant just talk and opine, he wouldn't have sat down with his Fellow Man on Holy Thursday, showed how to serve mankind, showed how to unite the sacrifice of Himself so that it could be on earth as it is in Heaven. At least you probably say the Our Father, so you are praying for the Eucharist every time you do that.

    A typical non-believing Evangelical named Scott Hahn attended Mass to see just what those Catholics were up to, and he became one in a long line of converts who has done so much to proclaim the faith with eloquence and passion. Look at the link below to hear his story as given to a crowd in Birmingham, Ala. It will absolutely answer your question.

    Communion is a holy sacrifice that is timeless and eternal. It's called Eucharist. It is celebrated by estimates at least every 15 minutes at some point on the globe within the Catholic Church. It is near continual. The larger the Church grows, the more often it will be celebrated, and it's holy aura will spread just as surely as the Angels of Death slew pagan Egyptians to help free up the Chosen People.

    Source(s): . Scott Hahn Covenant & Communion, Birmingham, Ala. http://www.scotthahn.com/listen-online.html . TODAY IS THE FEAST OF THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY LINKS TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE MOTHER OF GOD: Official Dogma http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/apost_c... . Last year's celebration of the Assumption (on video as well as transcript) by the pope http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/hom... . Ad Caeli Reginum http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encycli... . Anglican perspective from a few years back http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_counc... . Faith in God isn't complete without this understanding.... http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/cate...
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  • ?
    Lv 4
    4 years ago

    in case you probably did no longer be conscious of, you're employing a translations to assist a trinity doctrine - a rendering isn't supported by the Bible. for the reason that, they spoke back the Greek, i'm going to pass alongside and answer the Coptic. for the reason that Ego Eimi became used as contemporary in Greek, swpe anok tsoop is used could be used in the same way. merely like theres many Coptic Translations that helps the trinity doctrine, theres many translations that don't. What translators of Coptic attempt to disclaim at perfect is John a million:a million, which needless to say shows indefinant article being contemporary. replace: incredibly they do no longer. in the event that they did, they does no longer use the object "a" in brackets, nor will they use a capital "G" in God.

  • Anonymous
    9 years ago

    wow...an actual religion question...

    The issues around the concept of transsubstantiation are among the oldest controversies in teh christian church. Notable commentary could be pointed to int eh arguments between Zwigilli and Martin Luther on this subject.

    And it even relates to echoes of debates between pre-socratic philosophers...who pointed out the paradox...when certain strange cults had traditions of cleansing their sins with blood...that if the body is filthy, then it must naturally follow that blood it filthy as well, and you cannot clean dirt with dirt.

  • Moi
    Lv 7
    9 years ago

    what you appear to be asking is whether we literally or figuratively eat and drink Jesus' flesh and blood

    and the clear answer is that it is a figurative observance

    nowhere in scripture is the idea that a wafer and wine supernaturally turn into real flesh and blood

    we are commanded NOT to eat blood

    Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

    if you think I am mistaken then please provide the passages

    ======

    most people miss the real lesson here - but I want you to get it

    the lesson of communion is that Jesus wants us to remember his sacrifice EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GATHER TO EAT AS CHRISTIANS!

    and thats wherever we may happen to be - at home, church or anywhere

  • 9 years ago

    As Jesus was the Word and the Word was made flesh, it is His Word, that we must believe in and make room in our hearts for. As He said "I am the bread of life"

    and the wine is a symbol of His shedding His blood for us at calvary. as without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin.

    what gain would one have if they believe the bread becomes the body of Christ, when in actuallity all believers are knit into the body of Christ Him being the head. and no one would feast on His Word?

    Jesus said "As oft as you come together do this in remembrance of Me." proclaiming His death, until He comes.

  • ?
    Lv 7
    9 years ago

    4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O Lord God of hosts.

    1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

    2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

    1 aIn the bbeginning was the Word, and the cWord was with God, and the dWord was eGod.

    2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

    54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

    56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

    57 As the living Father hath asent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

    58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

    first of all, i can see there is a difference between the Eucharist and feasting upon the words of God. there is a difference of what christ is saying and what you are wrestling the words to mean. and i know the catholic church has a history of altering original text to do away with competing sects. first, the Sacriment of bread and wine are meant to be done "in memory" jesus life and blood which was shed and killed. to come up and conclude that eating any eucharist is literally the flesh and blood of christ is inviting cannibalism or vampirism.

    literally it does not matter what is partaken of in the sacrament if we remember christ, and keep the covenant which we make at baptism.

    calling jesus the Word is like calling isaiah a prophet. thats what it literally means to be called the word, or the oracles of christ. never at any time did jesus say he was God. he did say he was the son of God and that God sent him.

    so eating jesus in rememberance of his death is symbolic. eating literal flesh is cannibalism.

    while jesus is the world, and the bible is the holy word, the bible is not Jesus

    Source(s): D&C 27: 2 2 For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.
  • 9 years ago

    The Eucharist is food for the believer if one is to believe Jesus’ in His colloquy at Capernaum. It is food for endurance till eternal life. Jesus compares it to the manna that was eaten in the desert to sustain the Israelites. Jesus is speaking of the New Covenant requiring a new sustenance which is His Body and Blood. He says that real bread comes from the father. He then says that He is the bread of life. If one eats this bread they will live forever. The disciples listening to Him began to realize that Jesus was not speaking metaphorically but literally and then we come to the following verse:

    (Joh 6:52 DRB) (6:53) The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat

    Then Jesus said in unambiguously and literally:

    (Joh 6:53 DRB) (6:54) Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.

    Why eat His body and drink His blood? It is so that we can remain in Him by the Grace bestowed by the act of receiving His Body and His Blood. The Eucharist benefits us even more in that it augments our union with Christ as the principal fruit of receiving the Eucharist is an intimate union.

    (Joh 6:56 DRB) (6:57) He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me: and I in him.

    It is impossible to unite to Christ without the cleansing of past sins and preserving us from future sins. This is part of the sanctification process where we grow in our faith in him which separates us further from the risk of mortal sin. The Eucharist participation renews, strengthens and deepens ones incorporation into the Church originally through Baptism. It joins us to the entire Church Militant, Suffering and Triumphant.

    St. Ignatius said about the Eucharist, “ the one bread that provides the medicine of immortality, the antidote for death, and the food that makes live forever in Jesus Christ.”

    Some Protestants get a Docetist view when it comes to the Eucharist. They have no problem believing something to be spiritual but when it comes to mixing spirit and matter they seem to experience intellectual and theological mind block. This is the usual excuse for not believing in Sacraments because a spiritual reality is being conveyed by means of matter. They may even believe that this is a violation of the divine plan. The Eucharist proves that God loves matter because He comes to us under the appearance of bread and wine. In doing so there is no contradiction in Christ being physically and Sacramentally present.

    If we look at the account of the last supper we see Jesus present in two ways. He is present at the table in a natural way and is present also in a sacramental way which is no different than the Eucharistic experience today and through the history of the Church. How this is done while being a mystery is not impossibility just because it cannot be understood fully with our reason. We can all accept as Christians that God is everywhere and that He is present in a spiritual sense when we are gathered together. This is no greater a mystery than him reigning in heaven in His glorified body and on earth in His natural body. If he can create the universe from nothing can he not make bread and wine into His Body and Blood? These things may be beyond our understanding but certainly not beyond God’s abilities.

    For those who do not believe in the real presence there are the difficulties of the following verses:

    (1Co 11:26 DRB) For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come.

    (1Co 11:27 DRB) Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.

    (1Co 11:28 DRB) But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice.

    (1Co 11:29 DRB) For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

    (1Co 11:30 DRB) Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you: and many sleep.

    People who refuse to believe in the real presence believe that this represents a metaphor. But, if it is a mere metaphor, how can one be “guilty of the body and Blood” when one receives unworthily? As one scholar put it “Plain and simple reason seem to tell us that the presence of Christ’s body is necessary for an offense committed against it.” (1) It would seem reasonable that one cannot be guilty of Christ’s body and Blood if it is not present in the Sacrament. Other scholars said ” No one is guilty of homicide if he merely does damage to the statue or picture of a man without touching the man in person.” (2) The question might be asked in light of St. Paul’s teaching, can one be theologically satisfied in the meaningless belief in a Real Absence than the fuller meaning of a Real Presence.

    In Christ

    Fr. Joseph

    Source(s): (1) (Nicholas Cardinal Wiseman, Lectures on the Real Presence) (2)(Rumble and Carty, Eucharist Quizzes to a Street Preacher)
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