Samantha E asked in PetsDogs · 8 years ago

Westminster dog show, do they really care?

An offspring of the double merle Wyndlair Avalanche has just won bob at their show. Wyndlair Avalanche is the product of a very high risk merle to merle mating that only produced a singleton pup being Avalanche who is for the best part blind & quite possible death too. He is genetically flawed & in the words of a breeder who used him basically blind & deaf with shocking movement, her litter to him produced 4 pups. 2 of these pups have eye problems but that's Ok in her eyes as they did get 1 wonderful merle b#tch pup to go on with!!!!!

So should dog shows allow the offspring of disabled dogs through genetic malfunctions to compete bearing in mind that when they win it will cause more breeding's to Avalanche & his get?


Dogs adapt I know many blind dogs that get around fine it's not the point at all.

Update 2:

Amazing you all think it's fine to promote a breeding that causes suffering. Why would a lady who used him as a sire state he is blind & deaf if he was not? You all go on about only breeding to proven sires & dams, so how did he prove himself? Oh that's right he didn't, I wonder why????

Any breeding done that has an outcome of 25% sight affected offspring is just plain wrong, how can you not see this? 1 breeding done by him produced 50% sight affected offspring now that just is not good breeding in my honest opinion. It's breeding for color alone which leads into a whole load of mess.

Update 3:

Funny how I go away for the day & come back & some of the supporters of this win have deleted their answers, maybe they realized how bad they sounded finally.

10 Answers

  • 8 years ago
    Best Answer

    Knowingly breeding Merle to Merle is unethical and has been banned in kennel clubs and breed clubs across Europe and elsewhere outside the US. Even in the US, there are breed clubs that know better and ban merle to merle, dapple to dapple, etc.

    Wyndlair Avalanche is a travesty and his breeders should not be rewarded for intentionally creating a defective dog who is blind and deaf (I love the answer that says he's just mostly blind! yeah, that's a great excuse!) just to create a few more merle puppies per litter.

    This sire is the #1 producer now and he has never won anything. What a joke! A blind, deaf, poorly built dog is THE NUMBER 1 SIRE in the breed, he has never seen the inside of a show ring, he's never SEEN anything actually, and yet he is the dog all the wannabes want to breed to their bitches.

    Why? Because Rough Collies are corrupt and have fallen from grace.

    Sure, this is a dog show and the judge *might* not know this dog's history. This dog SHOULD NEVER have even existed. It should never have been bred. THAT is the issue.

    I also don't buy that no one knows. This dog and other Wyndlair Avalanche offspring have benefited from hundreds of thousands of dollars in advertisements! This is the number one stud dog, the grandson of last generation's number 1 stud dog. This is NOT a backyard breeder, this is the CREAM of the crop.

    If the judge didn't know who this dog was (and how could that happen, this is not their first dog show!), it doesn't matter. WE know who this dog is and that is the point.

    We won't reward this unethical breeding with praise for getting a ribbon when the price they paid for that ribbon is a disabled handicap dog that will never see and probably can't hear much either. And it didn't have to be that way.

    Source(s): 60 years in dogs.
  • 8 years ago

    There are many champions that should not be bred ever. I'm not fond of many conformation dogs. I feel that the working type, drive and instinct has been bred out of them. For me a true champion is a dog that can work and can look good doing so. I belive that the last dual champion that won a group 1 in the garden was the GSP, DC NMK's Brittania V Sibelstein who won in 1987 and in 1988.

    Below in a photo of the famous Brit. I had a Brit grand daughter several years ago. She was a wonderful dog. Mine was a Zoe daughter.

    I feel that if more breeders would breed for both working and conformation there would be fewer health issues in the breed. Right now there is such extreme differences between working and conformation lines in may breeds that they look like two different breeds. Sadly the diliberate breeding of dog such as this collie is becoming more common place. Some conformation breeders are just as unethical as so called BYB's.

    I would love to see a Dual champion win (BIS) Westminster. It probably won't happen in my lifetime.

    I wonder if this pretty fluffy collie has ever seen and sheep or even a duck. I didn't see any herding titles listed. Too bad that it's only half a collie.

    Let the TD's fly.

  • Anonymous
    8 years ago

    Kali, how can we all ignore the bad ones?

    High profile dog show winners tend to establish the next FAD in the dogs people purchase. A certain percentage of merle/merle dogs bred are going to be genetically defective with decreased eyesight or hearing. What happens to them, they get culled, dumped in shelters, sold or given to people that might breed them? Is it right to ignore the outcomes that are potentially really bad for one beautiful show dog that takes best of breed?

    How can the Collie Club of America sanction this breeding? It states on Avalanche's website that he is available for CCA club members only, to breed with select bitches only. There is no mention of his deafness or his blindess.

    CCA obviously doesn't follow their own code of ethics, which is posted on the internet. Members may not breed genetically defective dogs, and to do so, should mean instant dismissal from this breed club.

    His eyes look great. Doesn't matter to the breeders that he can't see. His ears have such a nice shape- never mind that they are deaf.

    What does this say about these people and the breed club?

    Generally, the judges are very familiar with a dog's lineage. Why did they reinforce this travesty of a breeding by picking this dog for best of breed? To pick this dog condoned that this breeding was acceptable.

    No morals, no ethics. Just money and EGO.

  • Kali
    Lv 5
    8 years ago

    It was not generally about good breeding it was too get a merle pup it is not the judges job nor does he or she have the time to genetically test every dog that goes into his ring. Some people breed to get a dog they think will produce desirable pups and make them money they simply do not care about the health. Personally I only associate with breeders and dog exhibitors whom are know for not only gorgeous specimens of their breed but also extraordinarily healthy dogs. My advice to you is ignore the bad ones and when you do find them report them to the AKC and spend your time and attention on the good ones it will help to discourage the bad breeders and improve the the good ones.

    You can not blame judges if they do not know. It is not their job to know it is their job to judge the dog and pick the one that best fits the breed standard.

    Source(s): Personal expirience
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  • Uhavetobekiddingme- You are always one of the 1st to say that "only a byb will breed soley for color" yet you make an exception when the dog is a show dog. The dog is DEAF and BLIND. Why would anyone encourage the breeding of a dog like that? If a normal person came on Y!A saying the bred two merles with one being blind you would be one of the first people calling them a BYB and telling them to spay/ neuter their dogs. Why is this dog and that breeder an exception to your rules? You seem like a serious hypocrite.

    That dog should NOT be bred from. It is a gorgous dog and it can win all the shows out there but breeding a dog like that is a serious no-no.

  • 8 years ago

    As a DEAF dog rescuer, I am overwhelmingly and utterly DISGUSTED with the Westminister Kennel Club, Wyndlair Avalanche's breeders, handlers, owners and co-owners, as well as the breed club that they all belong to. This Best Of Breed collie was intentionally bred merle to merle from a double merle DEAF AND BLIND stud dog. What is wrong with your MORALS and ETHICS when you KNOW as experienced breeders and industry people that you are going to produce damaged dogs? Is the PRIZE in the show ring that important to you that you don't care that what your BREEDING STANDARDS AREN'T RIGHT? It's called GREED.

  • 8 years ago

    The judge is supposed to judge what is presented to him/her in the ring -that is all. The judge is not even supposed to know the name of the dogs or their owners, much less their pedigree and any/all health problems that occur in the pedigree.

    The AKC is a record-keeping organization and the purpose of conformation shows is to judge a dog as an individual against other dogs in their conformation to the written standard. Dogs should no more be bred based solely on conformation than solely on working instincts or solely on health or solely on temperament. It is up to individual breeders to make informed choices about the type, temperament, health, and working ability of every dog they breed.

    The proposal that dogs who have ancestors with health problems should not be allowed to compete in the ring is preposterous - first off, how many generations back? second off, what health problems? thirdly, who will ensure that ALL dogs are health tested for everything and report all of the results to the registering organization? fourth, what about breeds where affected or carrier dogs MUST be bred to prevent the breed from becoming extinct?

    The conformation ring only judges one thing, if you want the whole package, insist that the breeder is producing and using only dogs that can deliver the whole package.

  • 8 years ago

    This is a dog show - they judge the dogs on conformation, breed type and movement. The judges do not have the time or ability to do genetic screenings on dogs or try to memorize the pedigrees and breeding records of thousands of dogs.

    It is up to the individual breed clubs to police their members and to educate breeders to avoid fatal and other genetic problems within their own breeds.

    A dog show is like a beauty pageant - the judges can only judge the dogs as they appear to them at that day and time.

  • jtexas
    Lv 7
    8 years ago

    the dog show is just that, a dog show, where people show their dogs. it's the breed club that you have problems with.

    I'm a big fan of breeding for function over form myself, but I must say, my west highland white terrier is one awesome dog.

  • 8 years ago

    Although i find the article sensationalist i do have to agree. The dog has accomplished nothing yet being used as a stud, why? The only reason is his colouring as his conformation has been called horrible, which is sad given all the talk so many people do about only using champion dogs etc etc etc.

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