Fellow Christians, where do you stand on limited atonement, and unlimited atonement?Did Christ die for all?

I believe in the verses that say "That none should perish." And "Not for ours only but for the whole world." "Whosoever believes." I cannot wrap my mind around the belief that God chose some for hell, and they had no hope no matter what they did or believed, that they never had... show more I believe in the verses that say "That none should perish." And "Not for ours only but for the whole world." "Whosoever believes." I cannot wrap my mind around the belief that God chose some for hell, and they had no hope no matter what they did or believed, that they never had a chance.
Or that God caused man to fall in the garden.
I cannot believe anything which makes God the author of sin, or that some have no chance at all.

Some Calvinists say some people have no chance at all, I believe we are called to "turn to God." "Repent." Which means change of mind. If it is all predetermined, why evangelize? I believe God loves us and that God has given every opportunity for us to be in His presence.

Where do you stand and why?
Update: Fellow Nerd, I just returned home from chess club, where we talked about Star Trek, so im in line for the nerd hall of fame. I agree, the limited atonement position seems too destructive to alot of scripture, and hurts the idea of evangelism.
Update 2: Fellow Nerd, I just returned home from chess club, where we talked about Star Trek, so im in line for the nerd hall of fame. I agree, the limited atonement position seems too destructive to alot of scripture, and hurts the idea of evangelism.
Update 3: Jack-----very interesting point, that all on His account will be resurrected. Jesus did say, "I am the resurrection and the life." His death is effectual to everyone based on the fact that all will be resurrected. Bravo, great job.
Update 4: Agnes, I too believe that Christ was predestined, and preordained to appear, being God in the flesh, to do what no other human being could do, to satisfy the absolute righteousness of God on our behalf. In this God is free to justify us fully, not out of mere pity, or being arbitrary, this one, not that one. ... show more Agnes, I too believe that Christ was predestined, and preordained to appear, being God in the flesh, to do what no other human being could do, to satisfy the absolute righteousness of God on our behalf. In this God is free to justify us fully, not out of mere pity, or being arbitrary, this one, not that one. I believe that those who believe are saved and those who choose not to believe are condemned---self condemned. I can speak to men's minds, only God can speak to their hearts.
Update 5: Samantha----ever notice concerning the Lamb's book of life that it say if "Their names were blotted out." To be blotted out means that their names were there to begin with. So it must have been intended that their name be written in it. This leads me to the conclusion that God desired them to... show more Samantha----ever notice concerning the Lamb's book of life that it say if "Their names were blotted out." To be blotted out means that their names were there to begin with. So it must have been intended that their name be written in it. This leads me to the conclusion that God desired them to remain in it, but something happened that their name would be blotted out.
Update 6: Best bet------I agree that there is personal responsibility and accountability involved. "They are left without excuse."


Takeshi-----Thank you for your agreement.
Update 7: Eclectic Heretic------Thank you for the star, and blessings on your journey as well.

"I am the way the truth and the life." Jesus Christ.
Update 8: Marcia---Amen I will be writing back soon with the program details we talked about. Christmas and my son's birthday celebration later today has really taken up my time. Grey Tower, you are very wise. I studied under Robert Thieme Jr. I agree that the death of Christ was only efficacious (efficacious... show more Marcia---Amen I will be writing back soon with the program details we talked about. Christmas and my son's birthday celebration later today has really taken up my time.

Grey Tower, you are very wise. I studied under Robert Thieme Jr. I agree that the death of Christ was only efficacious (efficacious meaning that what has been done will not fail and will accomplish always what it sets out to do) for the elect. But I believe that Christ's death accomplished for all a resurrection in the presence of God for all, some resurrected to salvation, and others to condemnation. I see the cross as the dividing line, those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved, and those who reject Christ are condemned already.

At any rate, Grey Tower, you have given an explanation that is both fair and God honoring. I will study what you have written and respond after giving your answer alot of objective thought. Thank you.
Update 9: Takeshi-----I agree that the gospel is given as a whosoever will message, the scripture says not for our sins only but for the sin of the whole world. Grey Tower---I believe that predestination was based on foreknowledge, God knew what each person would choose with their freewill, truly freewill, God does not... show more Takeshi-----I agree that the gospel is given as a whosoever will message, the scripture says not for our sins only but for the sin of the whole world.

Grey Tower---I believe that predestination was based on foreknowledge, God knew what each person would choose with their freewill, truly freewill, God does not force people to love Him, God is love and love does not force love in return. So I will agree with a predestination based on foreknowledge.
Is that where you stand?
Update 10: Robert P-----I believe that God is not arbitrary, I believe there is personal accountability to the point you are entirely left without excuse if you are to spend eternity in hell. So sad, that so many will choose it, never understanding the heart of God. They end up opposing ultimate love. Kj7 I will... show more Robert P-----I believe that God is not arbitrary, I believe there is personal accountability to the point you are entirely left without excuse if you are to spend eternity in hell. So sad, that so many will choose it, never understanding the heart of God. They end up opposing ultimate love.

Kj7 I will definitely keep you in the loop. Thanks for your interest in this question.

Grey tower has many interesting things to say, and graciously responded to my email request to discuss this issue. Her heart is good and seeks to honor and love God, and that is only a work that the Holy Spirit can perform. I can speak to your mind, only God can speak to your heart.
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