R&S! In what Way is the word "One" meant at John 10:30?

The scripture says...I and the Father are one. Does this really mean that a father and son are equal?

Look at verse 15, Jesus says just as the Father knows him he knows the Father...Why would he not say they are the same person if that was the case? WHY the distinction between the two? In verse 38 it says they are in "union".

Aren't we as Christian ALSO in Union and of same mind and thought?

Could you say that about a husband and wife; A parent and a child; good friends?

Does that indicate union of thought or union as in ONE person? Logic tells us No! ...same as this scripture...

....1 Cor. 1:30..that you are in union with Chrsit Jesus who has become to us wisdom...NOW, let's be logical here, ok?

Are we now the SAME PERSON as Christ Jesus just because it says we are in UNION? Hardly...and even better yet...when it says Jesus has "become" to us wisdom; does that mean that WISDOM is a PERSON? Now Jesus and wisdom are beings, spirit creatures, etc., Ha!

This PLAINLY explains that Jesus Christ was the FIRSTBORN...Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation...

John 1:18 'No man has seen GOD at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the {bosom position} with the Father is the one that has explained him.

Hebrews 10:12 But this {man} offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God.

WHAT does it mean to be on the RIGHT SIDE? It what way is Christ the FIRSTBORN? What about the BOSOM POSITION?

Can this "reality" be disputed logically? And try to use scriptures along with logic......

thanks, your thoughts....

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  • 8 years ago
    Best Answer

    First it's important to keep in mind that Trinitarians acknowledge that Jesus and the Father are different persons but the same one God. They see God as comprised of three separate persons, each performing a distinct role. So Trinitarians would not claim that Jesus is the same as the Father (Modalists would). So according to their doctrine, scriptures like John 10:15 which explicitly differentiate Jesus from the Father does not disprove their beliefs. It is scriptures that differentiate Jesus from God that disprove their beliefs, since Jesus is supposed to be God. To get around the obvious contradictions presented by those scriptures, they interpret such uses of 'God' as referring to the Father only and not the complete multi-person God which includes Jesus.

    You see, the highly illogical nature of the Trinity doctrine (including the concept of hypostatic union -- Jesus being both 100% God and 100% man), gives Trinitarians great flexibility to 'harmonize' seemingly contradictory scriptures with their beliefs. At worse, if all else fails, they only need to say: "it's a mystery that cannot be fully understood by finite human minds". The scriptures encourage Christians to 'rightly divide' the word of God and use sound reasoning. Trinitarianism throws this concept out the door altogether, exalting mysticism above the sound logical reasoning encouraged by scripture. They are playing by different rules altogether -- MAN-MADE rules. Because of it's illogical nature which gives it a great deal of flexibility to twist and contort itself to seemingly fit into scripture, the Trinity doctrine is the embodiment of the cliche 'having your cake and eating it'. So Trinitarians can both say that Jesus is NOT God -- the Father -- and that he IS God -- the Son, depending on what the scriptures say.

    But to answer your question more directly: by rightly dividing the scriptures, without preconceived, Trinitarian illogics, it becomes clear that Jesus being one with the Father meant a oneness (or union (from a root word meaning one, appropriately enough)) of purpose and not a oneness of being. This can clearly be seen by Jesus' later praying to his Father that his followers all be one JUST AS he and the Father are one. Since Jesus was praying for unity among his followers it becomes obvious that that is therefore the same oneness he had with the Father -- unity/oneness of purpose. (John 17:20-23) This unity was demonstrated by Jesus through his obedience to his Father. (John 4:34; John 8:29; John 15:10) The Father demonstrated unity with Jesus by backing Jesus' ministry with holy spirit and power. (Acts 10:38; John 14:10,11) The unity was forged by love, a perfect bond of union. (Colossians 3:14) This explains why Jesus used the phrase "remaining in union with" interchageably with "remaining in his (or the Father's) love" at John chapter 15. (John 15:1-10) Likewise we prove ourselves to be in union with God and Christ by our obedience to them, motivated by love. God and Christ prove their being in union with us by backing us with holy spirit and by God answering our prayers. (1John 2:5,6; 1John 3:6; 1John 3:22,24; 1John 4:13) Please read the cited scriptures that prove the truthfullness of what I have written.

  • farrah
    Lv 6
    8 years ago

    Sis if people read this wealth of information and dont get we have to be reminded that Satan blinds the minds of the unbelievers. I remember a show i use to watch as a child and everything the father did so did the son, he mimicked him very well. I use to use this show to explain how Jesus is the image of his Father. I also look just like my mother so much so that people who dont know thats my mother says i do, so people need to get a grip and understand the logic of three in one. Also all those scriptures you quoted not one of them mentioned the Holy Spirit with it so if they are all one then why not the mention of Holy Spirit, another logic to think about. Thank you for bringing this out.

  • Moi
    Lv 7
    8 years ago

    Its the Greek "heis" meaning "one". Meaning that they are of the same Spirit.

    Outline of Biblical Usage

    1) one

    Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 272 AV — one 229, a 9, other 6, some 6, not tr 4, misc 18

  • 8 years ago

    To be "One" is to think and do exactly as you were told by the one you learned from.

    When I understand you, in everything you think, say, and do, I will have become "One" with you.

    Ever had people reject your sense of humor, but than you find someone who not only understands your sense of humor but theirs is exactly like yours? You are as "One"

    Ever had some answer a question exactly the same way you would answer? You are as "One"

    If you where "One" with Jesus you would know everything he ever said about everything, including John 14:28.

    Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. Jesus is speaking about going to his Father in heaven as Jesus says in John 20:17

    AND

    John 12:49-50

    For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

    And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

    AND

    John 17:8

    For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

    Because I believe I know every word Jesus Himself ever spoke according to the 1611 King James version of the bible I can honestly say that Jesus and I are "One", can you?

    .

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  • 8 years ago

    Peace.

    ONE in purpose, in agreement with truth.

    Jesus was sent to speak YHWH/ JEHOVAH's truth, as at Deuteronomy 18:15- 19, John 12:49; Acts

    3:19- 26; John 18:37.

    Consistent with God's holy Writings, there are no contradictions [John 17:17; Psalm 119:160, Matthew 4:4.

    Please 'listen' to what Jesus said:

    John 14:28

    Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)

    28You heard me say, "I am going away and then I will come back to you." If you really loved me, then you would have been very glad that I am going to my Father. My Father is greater than I am.

    John 17:20-23

    King James Version (KJV)

    20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

    21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

    23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

  • 8 years ago

    It is interesting seeing what lead up to this statement. We should always read around a scripture to get the actual meaning as we can read something differently if we don't.

    When charged by opposers with ‘making himself a god,’ Jesus’ reply was: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?” (Joh 10:31-37) Jesus there quoted from Psalm 82, in which human judges, whom God condemned for not executing justice, were called “gods.” (Ps 82:1, 2, 6, 7) Thus, Jesus showed the unreasonableness of charging him with blasphemy for stating that he was, not God, but God’s Son.

    This charge of blasphemy arose as a result of Jesus’ having said: “I and the Father are one.” (Joh 10:30) That this did not mean that Jesus claimed to be the Father or to be God is evident from his reply, already partly considered. The oneness to which Jesus referred must be understood in harmony with the context of his statement. He was speaking of his works and his care of the “sheep” who would follow him. His works, as well as his words, demonstrated that there was unity, not disunity and disharmony, between him and his Father, a point his reply went on to emphasise. (Joh 10:25, 26, 37, 38; compare Joh 4:34; 5:30; 6:38-40; 8:16-18.) As regards his “sheep,” he and his Father were likewise at unity in their protecting such sheeplike ones and leading them to everlasting life. (Joh 10:27-29; compare Eze 34:23, 24.) Jesus’ prayer on behalf of the unity of all his disciples, including future ones, shows that the oneness, or union, between Jesus and his Father was not as to identity of person but as to purpose and action. In this way Jesus’ disciples could “all be one,” just as he and his Father are one.—Joh 17:20-23. But that didn't make them part of a trinity did it?

    Further~

    In harmony with this, Jesus, responding to a question by Thomas, said: “If you men had known me, you would have known my Father also; from this moment on you know him and have seen him,” and, in answer to a question from Philip, Jesus added: “He that has seen me has seen the Father also.” (Joh 14:5-9) Again, Jesus’ following explanation shows that this was so because he faithfully represented his Father, spoke the Father’s words, and did the Father’s works. (Joh 14:10, 11; compare Joh 12:28, 44-49.) It was on this same occasion, the night of his death, that Jesus said to these very disciples: “The Father is greater than I am.”—Joh 14:28.

    The disciples ‘seeing’ the Father in Jesus can also be understood in the light of other Scriptural examples. Jacob, for instance, said to Esau: “I have seen your face as though seeing God’s face in that you received me with pleasure.” He said this because Esau’s reaction had been in harmony with Jacob’s prayer to God. (Ge 33:9-11; 32:9-12) After God’s interrogation of Job out of a windstorm had clarified that man’s understanding, Job said: “In hearsay I have heard about you, but now my own eye does see you.” (Job 38:1; 42:5; see also Jg 13:21, 22.) The ‘eyes of his heart’ had been enlightened. (Compare Eph 1:18.) That Jesus’ statement about seeing the Father was meant to be understood figuratively and not literally is evident from his own statement at John 6:45 as well as from the fact that John, long after Jesus’ death, wrote: “No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.”—Joh 1:18; 1Jo 4:12.

    Source(s): insight on the scriptures
  • Elijah
    Lv 7
    8 years ago

    Jesus, at John 10:30, said: "I and the Father are one.”

    Many Bible Greek experts tell us that Bible writers consistently described groups of individuals as “one” figuratively in the sense of their being “united in will and purpose." (The following references to trinitarian sources are simply to show that EVEN THEY agree with the fact that Jesus is not claiming to be God at John 10:30.)

    Even the very TRINITARIAN New Testament Greek scholar W. E. Vine when discussing the Greek word for “one” says: “(b) metaphorically [figuratively], union and concord, e.g., John 10:30; 11:52; 17:11, 21, 22....” - An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, p. 809.

    Jesus said at John 17:22: “The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as we are one.” - NASB. (Compare John 17:11. - A footnote for John 17:11 in the very trinitarian The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985 says: “the unity is to be like that between the Father and the Son.”)

    Not only is it obvious that these Christians are not equally Christ with Jesus, nor equally God with the Father, nor are they all one person, but that they are all figuratively united in “will” and “purpose” with God. That is, they agree with and carry out the Father's will.

    Also important is that the word “one” at John 10:30 and 17:22 is the neuter form hen. The two other forms for “one” are mia, which is the feminine form, and heis, the masculine form. Those who insist that John 10:30 means “the Father and I are one God” are clearly wrong as shown by New Testament Greek grammar alone. “God” in New Testament Greek is always masculine and must take masculine forms of adjectives, pronouns, etc. in agreement (see Mark 12:29, 32; 1 Cor. 8:4; Eph. 4:4-6 in interlinear Bibles).

    Or, as Dr. Marshall puts it in one of his basic NT Greek grammar rules:

    “Adjectives must agree with the nouns they modify in number, gender,...and case”. - p. 25, Rule 7, New Testament Greek Primer, Alfred Marshall, Zondervan Publishing, 1978 printing. (Compare 1 Cor. 3:8 in interlinear Bible [esp. note footnote in The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English] with NIV; NAB; LB; and CBW.)

    Therefore, the use of the neuter “one” (hen) at John 10:30 shows “one God” could not have been intended by Jesus but instead shows “metaphorically, union and concord”! It is possible to have gender irregularities when someone is described figuratively (“metaphorically”) such as “he is a Rock” or “Jesus is the Lamb,” but when he is being literally described we must have gender agreement.

    If we insist on supplying an “understood” ‘God,’ it must be at a place which uses the masculine form of “one” (heis) in gender agreement (cf. Mark 10:18; Rom. 3:30). Trinitarian scholar Robert Young commented on this knowledge of the word “one” at John 10:30 in his Young’s Concise Critical Bible Commentary:

    “The particle en [hen] being of the neuter gender, can hardly signify ‘one being, i.e. one God,’ but rather ‘one in will, purpose, counsel...” - p. 62, Baker Book House, 1977.

    The very trinitarian Bible study reference book, The Bible Knowledge Commentary, agrees with trinitarian Young (above) in its discussion of John 10:30.

    Truly, then, there is absolutely no evidence for a “trinitarian” interpretation at John 10:30. In fact, the real meaning shows Jesus is *not* God.

    Additional Reading:

    What About Trinity "Proof Texts"? - John 10:30

    http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_08.htm

    ONE - John 10:30

    http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/10/on...

  • YXM84
    Lv 5
    8 years ago

    Unified in the same purpose.

    Source(s): My Two Cents.
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