In John 10:30, Jesus tells us that he and the Father are one?
Most people who worship the trinity man-god will claim that Jesus is telling us that he and the father are one God.
Does this scripture actually say that Jesus is claiming to be God? Read it in the context it was written.
24 The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."
25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me,
26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are one."
What is the context? What name does Jesus speak in? Who gave Jesus his sheep?
Is Jesus claiming to be God or is he claiming that his actions are in unity with the will of the Father?
Fireball... you did not answer the questions... you dodged the question entirely...
I am not a Muslim
- ElijahLv 79 years agoFavorite Answer
Jesus, at John 10:30, said: "I and the Father are one.”
Many Bible Greek experts tell us that Bible writers consistently described groups of individuals as “one” figuratively in the sense of their being “united in will and purpose." (The following references to trinitarian sources are simply to show that EVEN THEY agree with the fact that Jesus is not claiming to be God at John 10:30.)
Even the very TRINITARIAN New Testament Greek scholar W. E. Vine when discussing the Greek word for “one” says: “(b) metaphorically [figuratively], union and concord, e.g., John 10:30; 11:52; 17:11, 21, 22....” - An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, p. 809.
Jesus said at John 17:22: “The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them; that they may be one, just as we are one.” - NASB. (Compare John 17:11. - A footnote for John 17:11 in the very trinitarian The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985 says: “the unity is to be like that between the Father and the Son.”)
Not only is it obvious that these Christians are not equally Christ with Jesus, nor equally God with the Father, nor are they all one person, but that they are all figuratively united in “will” and “purpose” with God. That is, they agree with and carry out the Father's will.
Also important is that the word “one” at John 10:30 and 17:22 is the neuter form hen. The two other forms for “one” are mia, which is the feminine form, and heis, the masculine form. Those who insist that John 10:30 means “the Father and I are one God” are clearly wrong as shown by New Testament Greek grammar alone. “God” in New Testament Greek is always masculine and must take masculine forms of adjectives, pronouns, etc. in agreement (see Mark 12:29, 32; 1 Cor. 8:4; Eph. 4:4-6 in interlinear Bibles).
Or, as Dr. Marshall puts it in one of his basic NT Greek grammar rules:
“Adjectives must agree with the nouns they modify in number, gender,...and case”. - p. 25, Rule 7, New Testament Greek Primer, Alfred Marshall, Zondervan Publishing, 1978 printing. (Compare 1 Cor. 3:8 in interlinear Bible [esp. note footnote in The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English] with NIV; NAB; LB; and CBW.)
Therefore, the use of the neuter “one” (hen) at John 10:30 shows “one God” could not have been intended by Jesus but instead shows “metaphorically, union and concord”! It is possible to have gender irregularities when someone is described figuratively (“metaphorically”) such as “he is a Rock” or “Jesus is the Lamb,” but when he is being literally described we must have gender agreement.
If we insist on supplying an “understood” ‘God,’ it must be at a place which uses the masculine form of “one” (heis) in gender agreement (cf. Mark 10:18; Rom. 3:30). Trinitarian scholar Robert Young commented on this knowledge of the word “one” at John 10:30 in his Young’s Concise Critical Bible Commentary:
“The particle en [hen] being of the neuter gender, can hardly signify ‘one being, i.e. one God,’ but rather ‘one in will, purpose, counsel...” - p. 62, Baker Book House, 1977.
The very trinitarian Bible study reference book, The Bible Knowledge Commentary, agrees with trinitarian Young (above) in its discussion of John 10:30.
Truly, then, there is absolutely no evidence for a “trinitarian” interpretation at John 10:30. In fact, the real meaning shows Jesus is *not* God.
What About Trinity "Proof Texts"? - John 10:30
ONE - John 10:30 (Examining the Trinity)
- Anonymous9 years ago
The latter part of your last question is the most accurate. Not only were his actions in unity with the Father, but his thoughts and consciousness were, as well. He "knew" who He was.
Yeshua Immanuel the Christ never claimed to be God and the canonical scripture is replete with implied references to a hierarchy, including terms like "Son of Man", "Son of God" and "The Father".
Christ - having passed through the Archangelic Idea of Man, being a direct Logoic emanation into the Worlds of Separation - honored the human expression and was in total at-one-ment with Absolute Autarchy (aka "God"). He was (and still is) the examplar, insomuch as being able to "pack" God into the human expression.
Per his teachings, we are all "of God", "in God" and, as such, have the capacity to be at one with God, making the differece moot. So the ultimate context was that Christ was here to enlighten humanity but not just "teach". His dispensation was to "prove" not just His godliness through transcending death (a la the crucifixion) but ours, as well, and demonstrating we are far more than our material bodies.
Thus the teaching "Ye are Gods and Children of the Most High" - Psalm 82:6
When one hears "I and the Father are one", think two flames being brought together to form "one flame" (thus the inner meaning in various esoteric schools that "1 + 1 = 1")
P.S. While your experience may be different, I have not met many who "worship the Trinity". They simply acknowledge that the Logos and Holy Spirit are two expressions of Absolute Beingness or "God"...very much like humans having thoughts, emotions, and a physical body. When I speak to "you", which one of those am I speaking to?
- synopsisLv 79 years ago
The earliest Christian text - the Oxyrhynchus Hymn - is a prayer to the Trinity.
You - a Muslim - naturally reject the Trinity. If this means you need to misread the perfectly clear words of the Bible, you will do this.
This will be bad news for you one day.
"I am not a Muslim."
Historically and doctrinally the Jehovah's Witnesses are an offshoot of Islam. C T Russell admired the Koran, and wanted a 'christianity' which was closer its teachings. This is the main message of his book The Battle of Armageddon.
It is natural that Witnesses never admit that they are fundamentally Muslims.
No one would ask you in if you were honest about what you believe.
- Anonymous9 years ago
Jesus said his father is GREATER than him. Not BETTER than him there is a difference.
Example. THe president is greater than you because he holds a higher position than you, but he Is not better than you because you are the same. You are human.
Also with Jesus, he is equal with the father in nature,(God) but the father is greater In the position that he holds.
If you will take the time to look, you will find that there are verses that apply the divine characteristics that only God has , applied to the son. And don't use a biased translation of the bible
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- Anonymous9 years ago
Jesus divine nature has been a subject of debate throughout the history of Christians. BUT Christ’s divinity is shown over and over again in the New Testament. For example, in John 5:18 we are told that Jesus’ opponents sought to kill him because he "called God his Father, making himself equal with God."
In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. "So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).
John 1:2-3 - He (the Word) was in the beginning with God and all things were made through Him (the Word who was God).
These are just some of the examples and through these examples we understand many of Jesus' teachings such as John 10:30 in which Jesus says that He is God.Source(s): Catholic Christian
- Anonymous9 years ago
Yes and Yes. God the Father and God the Son implies that the Godhead is a position of authority and not of personal identity. Example: If the Executive Officer of an Incorporation were to speak on behalf of the Board of Directors, He would not be speaking on behalf of himself but on behalf of the Board. So it would be said that all of the members of the board of directors serve the same purpose but aren't the same person. Jesus is simply saying that He comes with the same Godly authority of His Father.
- CeisiwrLv 79 years ago
An explanation is given at John 10:34-36, "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
This seems to refer to Psalm 82:6, "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."
This seems to say that others are also sons of God. Also, sometimes when the Bible translates two persons as being one, it means that the two agree - not that they are the same.
- 9 years ago
“I and the Father are one,” said Jesus. (John 10:30) Some quote this text to prove that Jesus and his Father are two parts of a triune God. Is that what Jesus meant by this statement?
You are correct in looking at the context. In verse 25, Jesus stated that he did works in the name of his Father. From verses 27 to 29, he talked about symbolic sheep whom his Father had given him. Both statements by Jesus would have made little sense to his listeners if he and his Father were one and the same person. Instead, Jesus said, in effect, ‘My Father and I are so close-knit that no one can take away the sheep from me, just as no one can take them away from my Father.’ It is much like a son saying to his father’s enemy, ‘If you attack my father, you attack me.’ No one would conclude that this son and his father were the same person. But all could perceive the strong bond of unity between them.
Jesus and his Father, Jehovah God, are also “one” in the sense that they are in complete agreement as to intentions, standards, and values. In contrast with Satan the Devil and the first human couple, Adam and Eve, Jesus never wanted to become independent of God. “The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing,” Jesus explained. “For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner.” (John 5:19; 14:10; 17:8).
This strong bond of unity, however, does not make God and his Son, Jesus, indistinguishable from each other. They are two individuals. Each one has his own distinct personality. Jesus has his own feelings, thoughts, experiences, and free will. Nevertheless, he chose to submit his will to that of his Father. According to Luke 22:42, Jesus said: “Let, not my will, but yours take place.” These words would have been meaningless if his will could not differ from his Father’s. If Jesus and his Father were really one person, why did Jesus pray to God and humbly admit to not knowing things that only his Father knew? (Matthew 24:36).
Thus, when Jesus said, “I and the Father are one,” he was speaking, not of a mysterious Trinity, but of a wonderful unity—the closest bond possible between two persons.Source(s): New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures The Watchtower Library http://www.watchtower.org
- LineDancerLv 79 years ago
John 10:30 is often cited to support the Trinity, even though no third person is mentioned there. But Jesus himself showed what he meant by his being "one" with the Father. At John 17:21, 22, he prayed to God that his disciples "may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, . . . that they may be one just as we are one." Was Jesus praying that all his disciples would become a single entity? No, obviously Jesus was praying that they would be united in thought and purpose, as he and God were.
Jesus never claimed to be God. However, he did say that he was sent BY God. For instance, at John 8:42, he said to the Jews: "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and am here; I did not come on my own, but he sent me."
The context of John 10:30 indicates that Jesus and his Father were in harmony concerning how the "sheep" were to be cared for. The Jews objected to Jesus' claim to give his followers eternal life. To them, that was blasphmy because they figured that only God himself could give life. However, that was not true because God had given his Son the power to bestow eternal life on others. As Jesus had earlier said: "For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the possession of life in himself." (John 5:26)
Rather than claiming to be God, Jesus said at John 10:36: "I am the Son of God."
- gismoIILv 79 years ago
It has a DUAL meaning here ONLY. It means they both have the SAME Divine Nature (God) AND oneness in purpose. It does NOT mean the same person. Since this verse ALONE is NOT needed to prove "the same Divine Nature (God)" meaning, it is foolish not to use it to prove it here despite the fact all the other similar verses about His disciples ONLY refer to "oneness in purpose". Again, the exception and inconsistency in dual meanings is valid since many other verses are used to prove Jesus has the same Divine Nature (God) anyway. Again, it means both in John 17:22 but limited to oneness in purpose when referring to His disciples.
- GregoryLv 79 years ago
Does this scripture actually say that Jesus is claiming to be God?
yes he does
the people there understood what he said there was no misconception as you are trying to claim
john 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
john 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.