Trinitarians what is your understanding of Psalms 45:6(NIV)?

"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom."

The NIV's footnote for this vs says the following:

"Here the king is addressed as God’s REPRESENTATIVE."(emphasis added)

So if this is the understanding, when Paul quotes this vs in Hebrews 1:8 how do you CHANGE the meaning to Jesus as him being God himself! By calling Jesus God in Hebrews wouldn't that make the King of Israel God as well since Ps 45:6 was originally applied to the King?

Update:

***SEEKER***

Are you sure about that? Than the NIV translators must be wrong too!

Update 2:

***Peacelily***

Thanks for your response but I think that you're a little off course here cause not only the NIV translators disagree with you but also the NET as well. In fact the NET translators make the following comment on this vs:

"...it is preferable to retain the text and take this statement as another instance of the royal hyperbole that permeates the royal psalms. Because the Davidic king is God’s vice-regent on earth, the psalmist addresses him as if he were God incarnate."

Update 3:

***Peacelily***

Yes you are and here is why:

NAB translation, footnote for Heb 1:8 -

"O God: the application of the name “God” to the Son derives from the preexistence mentioned in Hebrews 1:2–3; the psalmist had already used it of the Hebrew king in the court style of the original.

NAB translation, footnote for Ps 45:6 -

"O god: the king, in courtly language, is called “god,” i.e., more than human, representing God to the people. Hebrews 1:8–9 applies Psalm 45:7–8 to Christ."

Heb 1:8 -

"Psalm 45 is a wedding song, originally describing a king of Israel, but later understood by the rabbis as messianic. The contrast between a royal personage and his servant-companions is the point of the quotation. This king is addressed twice as God." (Stedman, Ray C.: Hebrews)

NAB translation, footnote for Heb 1:8 -

"O God: the application of the name “God” to the Son derives from the preexistence mentioned in Hebrews 1:2–3; the psalmist had already used it of the Hebrew king in the court styl

Update 4:

***Peacelily***

Yes you are and here is why:

NAB translation, footnote for Heb 1:8 -

"O God: the application of the name “God” to the Son derives from the preexistence mentioned in Hebrews 1:2–3; the psalmist had already used it of the Hebrew king in the court style of the original.

NAB translation, footnote for Ps 45:6 -

"O god: the king, in courtly language, is called “god,” i.e., more than human, representing God to the people. Hebrews 1:8–9 applies Psalm 45:7–8 to Christ."

Heb 1:8 -

"Psalm 45 is a wedding song, originally describing a king of Israel, but later understood by the rabbis as messianic. The contrast between a royal personage and his servant-companions is the point of the quotation. This king is addressed twice as God." (Stedman, Ray C.: Hebrews)

NAB translation, footnote for Heb 1:8 -

"O God: the application of the name “God” to the Son derives from the preexistence mentioned in Hebrews 1:2–3; the psalmist had already used it of the Hebrew king in the court styl

Update 5:

style of the original. See the note on Psalm 45:6. It is also important for the author’s christology that in Hebrews 1:10–12 an Old Testament passage addressed to God is redirected to Jesus."

NAB translation, footnote for Ps 45:6 -

"O god: the king, in courtly language, is called “god,” i.e., more than human, representing God to the people. Hebrews 1:8–9 applies Psalm 45:7–8 to Christ."

Heb 1:8 -

"Psalm 45 is a wedding song, originally describing a king of Israel, but later understood by the rabbis as messianic. The contrast between a royal personage and his servant-companions is the point of the quotation. This king is addressed twice as God." (Stedman, Ray C.: Hebrews)

Ps 45:6 -

"Ps. 45:7, 8. In order to avoid the addressing of the king with the word Elohim, v. 6a has been interpreted, (1) “Thy throne of God is for ever and ever,”—a rendering which is grammatically possible . . . But might אלהים [God] by any possibility be even addressed to the king who is here celebrated? . . . E

Update 6:

Elsewhere earthly authorities are also called אלהים [God], Ex. 21:6; 22:7f., Ps. 82, cf. 138:1, because they are God’s representatives and the bearers of His image upon earth, so the king who is celebrated in this Psalm may be all the more readily styled Elohim [God]." (Delitzsch, Franz: Commentary on the Old Testament)

10 Answers

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  • Elijah
    Lv 7
    9 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Excellent point!

    If one were to simply notice the context, Heb. 1:8 and 1:9 are being quoted from Ps. 45:6 and 45:7. In Ps. 45:7, speaking to the Israelite King, it says: "Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows." - RSV. Just as this makes it clear that the ancient Israelite king was not God but was anointed by God, his God, to a position above his fellows, so does Heb. 1:9, as figuratively applied to Jesus, show that he is not God, but was anointed by his God to a position above his fellows! Context, then, shows that the person addressed in Heb. 1:8 is not God, but one who worships God and was anointed by his God!

    Interesting comparisons:

    Translations of Heb. 1:8 by trinitarians:

    "God is your throne" - AT (Dr. Goodspeed)

    "God is thy throne" - Mo (Dr. James Moffatt)

    "God is your throne" - Byington

    "God is your throne" - Dr. Barclay

    "God is thy throne" - Dr. Westcott

    "God is thy throne" - A. T. Robertson (Alternate translation)

    "God is thy throne" - Dr. Young (Alt.)

    "God is thy throne" - RSV (Alt.)

    "God is your throne" - NRSV (Alt.)

    "God is thy throne" - NEB (Alt.)

    "Thy throne is God" - ASV (Alt.)

    Translations of Ps. 45:6 by trinitarians:

    "Your Divine throne" - RSV

    "Your throne is like God's throne" - NEB

    "God is your throne" - Byington

    "The kingdom that God has given you" - GNB

    "God has enthroned you" - REB

    "Your throne is from God" - NJB

    "Your throne is a throne of God" - NRSV (Alt.)

    "Thy throne is the throne of God" - ASV (Alt.)

    Also, instead of "Thy throne, O God," in Heb. 1:8, many trinitarian scholars (Goodspeed, B. F. Westcott, and H. F. W. Gesenius to name a few) freely admit the honest possibility of alternate, non-trinitarian interpretations and renderings for this verse such as `God is thy throne' or `Thy throne is God'.

    Even famed Southern Baptist New Testament Greek scholar and trinitarian Dr. A. T. Robertson (who is even willing to sometimes go to ridiculous - and often provably wrong - lengths to support trinitarian "proof texts") admits:

    "It is not certain whether ho theos is here the vocative [`your throne, O God'] ... or ho theos is nominative (subject or predicate) with estin ('is') understood: `God is thy throne' or `Thy throne is God.' Either makes good sense." - p. 339, Vol. 5, Word Pictures in the New Testament, Broadman Press, 1960.

    For much more concerning this, see:

    Heb. 1:8

    http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/09/he...

  • daty
    Lv 4
    4 years ago

    Psalms 45

  • 9 years ago

    Jesus claimed to be God - John 8:24; 8:56-59 (see Exodus 3:14); John 10:30-33

    Jesus is called God - John 1:1,14; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8

    Jesus is the image of the invisible God - Heb. 1:3

    Jesus abides forever - Heb. 7:24

    Jesus created all things - John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-17

    Jesus is before all things - John 1:1-3; Col. 1:17;

    Jesus is eternal - John 1:1,14; 8:58; Micah 5:1-2

    Jesus is honored the same as the Father - John 5:23

    Jesus is prayed to - Acts 7:55-60; 1 Cor. 1:2 with Psalm 116:41; (John 14:14)

    Jesus is worshipped - Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6

    Jesus is omnipresent - Matt. 18:20; 28:20

    Jesus is with us always - Matt. 28:20

    Jesus is our only mediator between God and ourselves - 1 Tim. 2:5

    Jesus is the guarantee of a better covenant - Heb. 7:22; 8:6

    Jesus said, "I AM the Bread of Life" - John 6:35,41,48,51

    Jesus said, "I AM the Door" - John 10:7,9

    Jesus said, "I AM the Good Shepherd" - John 10:11,14

    Jesus said, "I AM the Way the Truth and The Life" - John 14:6

    Jesus said, "I AM the Light of the world" - John 8:12; 9:5; 12:46; Luke 2:32

    Jesus said, "I AM the True Vine" - John 15:1,5

    Jesus said, "I AM the Resurrection and the Life" - John 11:25

    Jesus said, "I AM the First and the Last" - Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13

    Jesus always lives to make intercession for us - Heb. 7:25

    Jesus cleanses from sin - 1 John 1:9

    Jesus cleanses us from our sins by His blood - Rev. 1:5; Rom. 5:9

    Jesus forgives sins - Matt. 9:1-7; Luke 5:20; 7:48

    Jesus saves forever - Matt. 18:11; John 10:28; Heb. 7:25

  • Anonymous
    9 years ago

    It is the Throne of David and Jesus said he is both the root and the offspring of David (Rev. 22:16). Jesus is also King of all kings and the Lord of lords (Rev. 19:6).

    And what about the multitiude of other Messianic scriptures attesting to the divinity of the Christ? For example;

    "For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, "'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand" Acts 2:34 referring to Psalm 110:1

    Jesus speaks of this at length in Luke 20:42, Matthew 22:44 and Mark 12:46!!

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  • 9 years ago

    The footnote for Palms 45:6 in the Catholic Bible reads as follows: "The Palm was retained in the collection when there was no reigning king, and came to be applied to the king to come, the messiah".

  • 9 years ago

    your mistaken psalms 45:6 is talking about god himself not a earthly king

    it was not applied to a earthly king

    jesus is stated in the bible as god himself in the old and new testament

    isaiah 44:6

    isaiah 9:6

    hebrews 1:1-3

    john 1:1,14

  • Darrin
    Lv 7
    9 years ago

    The NIV is not a very good translation. In fact it is very weak. Maybe not heresy, but not good........>

    Jesus is King. Him being born of human flesh was in the line of King David. He is king by lineage........>

    @Miss Candy...I know you are KJV only person, but to say that it is the only "authorized" version. Who authorized it? Dont get me wrong, I like the KJV. It is a very accurate translation. But to lean on that version alone, in its old English language will be unwise...........>

  • 9 years ago

    The NIV is a crap translation. I wouldn't take the time to ponder it. Could you use the KJV as your source, since it is the Authorized bible?

  • 9 years ago

    My understanding of Psalm 45:6 is that it is a prophecy pointing to Jesus Christ alone. It is speaking of the marriage between the Bridegroom (Christ) and His bride (His body, the church).

    It cannot be understood as speaking of any earthly king (for this King is "fairer than the sons of men," and GRACE is poured upon His lips).

    That this was a prophecy concerning Jesus Christ, the Messiah, is confirmed in Hebrews 1:8. Anyone who interprets this passage as speaking of an earthly king is mistaken. This is why we must look to the Bible and rely on the Holy Spirit as our teacher rather than the interpretations of men.

    Edit: Am I? Thank you for sending me to the commentaries for affirmation of my interpretation:

    A. R. Fausset: "The union and glories of Christ and his Church are described. He is addressed as a king possessed of all essential graces, as a conqueror exalted on the throne of a righteous and eternal government, and as a bridegroom arrayed in nuptial splendor."

    John Wesley: "Fairer — Than all other men: which is most true of Christ; but not of Solomon; whom many have excelled, in holiness and righteousness, which is the chief part of the beauty celebrated in this psalm."

    "O God — It is evident, that the speech is still continued to the same person whom he calls king, verse 1,11, and here God, to assure us that he doth not speak of Solomon, but a far greater king, who is not only a man, but the mighty God."

    Adam Clarke: Verse 2. "Thou art fairer than the children of men " ... It would be unauthenticated to say Solomon was the most beautiful man in the universe; but to the perfections of the Lord Jesus they may be safely applied.

    God hath blessed thee for ever. This, I am afraid, could in no sense be ever spoken of Solomon; but of the man Christ Jesus it is strictly true.

    Verse 6. "Thy throne, O God, is for ever " - d[w µlw[ µyhla ûask kisacha Elohim olam vaed. "O God, thy throne is for ever, and eternal!" The word Elohim here is the very first term or name by which the Supreme God has made himself known to the children of men. See Gen. i. 1; and this very verse the apostle, Heb. i. 8, has applied to Jesus Christ. On this I shall make a very short remark, but it shall be conclusive: If the apostle did not believe Jesus Christ to be the true and eternal God, he has utterly misapplied this Scripture.

    Matthew Henry: "This psalm is an illustrious prophecy of Messiah the Prince: it is all over gospel, and points at him only, as a bridegroom espousing the church to himself and as a king ruling in it and ruling for it. It is probable that our Saviour has reference to this psalm when he compares the kingdom of heaven, more than once, to a nuptial solemnity, the solemnity of a royal nuptial, Mt. 22:2; 25:1. We have no reason to think it has any reference to Solomon’s marriage with Pharaoh’s daughter; if I thought that it had reference to any other than the mystical marriage between Christ and his church, I would rather apply it to some of David’s marriages, because he was a man of war, such a one as the bridegroom here is described to be, which Solomon was not. But I take it to be purely and only meant of Jesus Christ; of him speaks the prophet this, of him and of no other man; and to him (v. 6, 7) it is applied in the New Testament (Heb. 1:8), nor can it be understood of any other."

    Eph. 4:14: As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

    2 Pet 2:1: But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

    ----

    I am so grateful to God that the Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God (Rom. 8:15-17); that as such, it is not necessary for anyone to teach me, because the Holy Spirit who lives in me teaches me all things (1 John 2:27) and that, as such, I am not judged by any man (1 Cor. 2:14-15; Jas. 4:12). You could have this same assurance! It only requires humbling yourself and asking Jesus to be your Lord and Savior, looking to him alone for your salvation.

  • Anonymous
    9 years ago

    dunno

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