Quranists & Submitters?
What's the difference between Submitters and Quranists?
Don't worry I'm not out to bash anyone. In fact my whole family are Quranists.
I know about 19 (but not much), but who is this Rashid person who claims to be a messenger? And if he is a messenger, then what is his message?
Please keep an open mind people :)
Hunzai: Well, to be brief, us Quranists only believe in the Quran, and we consider hadiths as a collection of historical events which could or could not have taken place. (they were recorded 300 years after the Prophet PBUH's death)
As for submitters, I'm not sure myself.
Wat Wat: Please, keep an open mind, we are here to negotiate and not criticize. All of your questions would be answered if you went to http://free-minds.org/ :) Peace.
Stranger: I think that you have misunderstood us. We do not deny the words of the Muhammad (PBUH), but we doubt the authenticity of these hadiths, since a great number of them contradict the Quran and have mislead Muslims. The Quran is G-d's words, and G-d, like his words, is perfect and complete. And please refrain from using offensive nouns such as "fools" on my questions.
Gento D. Luffy: I watched the whole video. The man himself speaks in a negative tone and offensive manner, and if you want to learn more about Quranists, I advice you to watch videos made by Quranists, and not by Anti-Quranists. By the way, almost all of the things he says aren't true. He generalizes too much. It's kind of like the western views on Islam. biased and completely incorrect. Peace.
Gento D. Luffy: The video is loading right now. But can I ask you a few questions? What do you think of the killing of apostles, hijab, and the stoning of those who commit adultry? I found Shah's answer on this question very interesting: http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ao...
Those are the type of things that made me choose this path.
J.S.: Interesting... So Submitters believe that Rashid Khalifa was a messenger? And his message was about 19?
Revolutionpsyche: I favorited all of those websites. They're all very interesting :)
I wasn't so sure about this whole submitter thing too, but thought that I would hear them out, since their beliefs and logic are so close to ours. I am one of those people who doesn't like the 'quranist' label, and would rather just go with Muslim.
I feel a bit awkward when removing two ayaes from the Quran. It doesn't seem right.
And by the way yes, I am Arab as well. Well actually my dad is Turkish, but my mom is Lebanese. :)
- 9 years agoBest Answer
Your entire family are Quranists? I'm jealous!
Alright, let's see. I'm on facebook and on many Quran Alone and Submitter groups, so I can show you both types of differences, the on and off record:
Quranists was a term used by the Egyptians and Egyptian Gov't who were against Ahl Al Quran, a group of Quran Aloners who mainly followed Ahmad Subhi Mansour, who denied hadith and got into jail for this. If you speak Arabic and/or don't mind weird English, check out their site: http://ahl-alquran.com/arabic/main.php. It got great Quranist articles. :)
This is where the term originated in Arabic countries, usually pronounced quraniyoon/quranyeen or ahl al quran.
Of course, this does not mean it's theirs exclusively, and their original name is Ahl Al Quran. A Quranist is anyone who considers the Quran to be the only source of law. Some Quranists may be submitters (although I PERSONALLY do not consider them to be Quranists), and some others may believe in Sunnah but not hadith (which I do not consider Quranists either, for personal reasons).
There are many other outside sources beside hadith that people should utterly deny and leave behind, and so I don't think the term "Quranist" can be canned up as a "Denier of Hadith".
The thing is that Submitters believe in "miracle 19" as a part of the Quran, which is their honest opinion and they are entitled to it, and thus could be Quranists. Rashad Khalifa was believed to be another Messenger from God. You can find more about him and his ideology on http://submission.org/. This site doesn't contain any criticism to the code19 theory. :)
Many Quranists even deny the term and consider it a way of division and prefer "Muslim".
More links for you: my friend launched a Quranist website and a Quranist blog and blog directory (where you can add yours too): http://www.quranists.net/, quranistvoices.wordpress.com/.
The first one contains many great articles on the ideology, study approach and movement of Quranism.
The latter is probably your place for "daily" Quranic news and musings a number of writers (including myself) share online for everyone to benefit.
Differences I noticed:
Okay, not the off-the-record stuff. I'm not friends with many believers in code 19 at will. Many of them have abused me in the name of their code as I am not convinced with it although many others are nice. They prefer to be called "Submitters" as a part of Rashad's "authorized English translation of the Quran". I also noticed that Rashad Khalifa provided many many quick-business answers for them regarding the Quran and Quranic verses. His English translation kind of "seals the deal" on Quranic interpretation, and that is why I see they are in no need to be "Quranists". Most Quranists I know spend many hours daily analyzing and studying the Quran, while I see them posting 19-related articles all over a chosen group. It's spammy, and then they tell me I am a bad person for getting annoyed to see "God's word" posted everywhere when it's actually "Rashad Khalifa's thoughts on God's word".
As far as I know, there are more foreign Submitters than Arabic ones (I'm Arabic and I noticed many were drawn more toward Shahrour's and Ahmad Subhi Mansour's views on hadith, thus didn't get to see much of Rashad). It's actually quite rare to find an Arabic Submitter although I know quite many.
Long ago, we had a group on facebook called "Hadith of the Day!" which was mainly 19-orientated. Most admins were advertising Rashad Khalifa's ideas, which drew many people into discovering new ways to serve God without the need of Hadith. Maybe Rashad should get credit for spreading the message of free-thinking... to some degree.
And his message is mainly explained on submission.org although I highly recommend you don't rely on it, since the code he brought to surface (code 19) cannot function properly unless two verses of the Quran are removed (which is a big no-no to me and many others), and I never fail to find "errors" in his work.
To me, a Quranist is a free thinker (since imho, the Quran encourages free thinking) who studies the Quran and honestly attempts to apply it.
If you have a facebook, feel free to swing by our group: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/home.php?sk=gr...
----Update to Sarah----
All good. :)
I'm glad you feel that way about removing the two verses. It's just a move too big!
I feel "Muslim" is too general, especially when introducing myself because then people start getting shocked since I share so little with their rituals of salaat and so on, so "Quranist" always sounds more accurate although they often mix this up with "Submitters".
I'm an Arabic too, Palestinian heritage. Glad to see others around here lol. Feel free to add me in case you're a facebooker: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=10000073453... :)
Peace and take care. ;)
- Anonymous9 years ago
I agree with Revolution Psyche (RP). Submitters , followers of Rashad Khalifa's theories can NOT be quranists. Reason is simple: how can be you be a quranist if you REJECT two verses of the Quran?
I'd also like to add that, Quranists are people who support each in their journeys into the Quran. We are not a hierarchy of scholars at all. Rather travellers, we share notes of our findings and help each other along the way. Quranists are encouraged to find their own views and not to rely on any scholars. This is the opposite with the Submitter folks.
One thing though, although i said Submitters are not quranists, im not saying they're not muslims. Being muslim means being an agent of wholeness and soundness and thats an individual thing.
- 9 years ago
Quranists and Submitters follow the same philosophy of "follow Quran Alone". The primary difference is that the Submitters believe that Rashad Khalifa was a messenger of God as per 3:81 and 33:7. The Submitters Believe RK purified the religion of Islam by purging the man made traditions that crept into the religion. They also believe that RK unveiled the mathematical miracle of the Quran based on the number 19 which proves, without a doubt, that the Quran is divine.
For more info about the Submitters please visit www.submission.org
- 9 years ago
Quranists or submitters are those fools who believes that they are more wise and intelligent than prophet muhammed sallalahu alayhiwasalam so they dont need the explanation of messenger of Allah, to follow the Qur'an properly. or else Allah subhanahuata'ala is giving directions directly to them, how to follow the Qur'anic laws properly.
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- Anonymous9 years ago
submitters= MUSLIMS- Submission to Allah- No Hadith.
QURANIST=MUSLIMS-Strictly follow QURAN -no Hadith
- Gento D. LuffyLv 59 years ago
Qur'anist (Qur'an only) are not proper muslims. According to some Qur'anist, we can pray naked. ;P
Edit: Sis, Muslims are suppose to be open-minded.;) There too many problems with Qur'anist (Qur'an Only) ideology. Too many.
Edit: Why do you find that man offensive? He is one of the coolest teacher around. ;) Now please watch this-
If you love Prophet Muhammad S.A.W, please dont reject Hadith collections. And teach your family not to.