Question for Jehovah's Witnesses?
Ok so here is my question, there are a few quotes in John when Jesus says "I am" or "I AM" (I don't know if it's supposed to be capitalized or not). Anyway, this is supposed to be an argument supporting the Trinity. So would you refute this quote? What's your stance?
*JW Guy: Excellent explanation, thank you.
Thank you to everyone else for the answers!
*Mindy: Thanks a lot for that great info! Yes, it's better to get things from the horse's mouth, no one should be afraid of seeing the Truth. The only way to find the Truth is to look at all sides of the story. Thank you for the answer!
*Fixerken: Thanks a lot for that, good advice!
Thank you everyone, it's all wonderful information!
- MindyLv 69 years agoFavorite Answer
Absolutely nothing in the Bible can support the Trinity because it isn't a Bible teaching whatsoever and doesn't have a leg to stand on.
At John 8:58 a number of translations, for instance The Jerusalem Bible, have Jesus saying:
"Before Abraham ever was, I Am."
Was Jesus there teaching, as Trinitarians assert, that he was known by the title "I Am"? And, as they claim, does this mean that he was Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures, since the King James Version at Exodus 3:14 states: "God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM"?
At Exodus 3:14 (King James Version) the phrase "I AM" is used as a TITLE for God to indicate that he really existed and would do what he promised. The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz, says of the phrase... and I quote:
"To the Israelites in bondage, the meaning would be, 'Although He has not yet displayed His power towards you, He will do so; He is eternal and will certainly redeem you.' Most moderns follow Rashi [a French Bible and Talmud commentator] in rendering [Exodus 3:14] 'I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE.'"
The expression at John 8:58 is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus DID NOT use it as either a personal name or a title but as a means of explaining HIS PREHUMAN EXISTENCE and that's a HUGE difference.
This is not a "Jehovah's Witnesses thing" and or a "Jehovah's Witnesses teaching" whatsoever. It is the teaching from God's Word the Bible that we who are dedicated and baptized members of the unified worldwide Christian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to.
Carefully note how some other very reliable Bible versions render John 8:58
"From before Abraham was, I have been."
~ The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.
"I existed before Abraham was born!"
~ The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.
"Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that I am."
~ Das Neue Testament, by Jörg Zink.
"I was alive before Abraham was born!"
~ The Simple English Bible.
"Before Abraham came into existence, I have been."
~ New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.
Thus, the REAL thought of the Greek used here is that God's CREATED "firstborn," Jesus, had existed long before Abraham was born.—Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Revelation 3:14 / http://bit.ly/lp1a4G .
Again, THE CONTEXT itself it what shows this to be the ACCURATE and CORRECT understanding. The Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to "have seen Abraham" although, as they said, he was not yet 50 years old (as shown at Verse 57 of John Chapter 8) Jesus' natural response was to tell the truth ABOUT HIS AGE. So he naturally told them that he "was alive before Abraham was born!", just as 'The Simple English Bible' beautifully states.
Leave it to the Trinitarian believers and supporters to fight tooth and nail on this Bible Truth. Why do they do it? It's simply a matter of pride, stubbornness and lack of humility. Some people simply CAN'T handle being WRONG. For them to admit that they are WRONG in their beliefs is like admitting defeat in their minds. Rather than allowing them to see that they have obviously taken a wrong turn somewhere in life due to erroneous religious teaching, they try to FIGHT against the Truth which is both ridiculous and stupid.
Truth doesn't have to be proven, it just simply IS and the more someone fights against the Truth the more STUPID they make THEMSELVES look to those who actually KNOW the Truth.
A person HAS to be able to admit their mistakes, be able to admit their error, that they were WRONG in order to serve God THE almighty acceptably and for MANY that's the hardest thing to do. God isn't a Trinity, Jesus isn't THE Almighty God (Jesus is God THE almighty's Son), Jesus IS a created being, the holy spirit is God's active force and Christendom is a joke.
I do not take the God dishonoring doctrine of the Trinity lightly as it keeps sincere people away from the true God and is a stumbling block to their receiving ever-lasting LIFE based on accurately KNOWING God. I was brought up and raised as a Roman Catholic and when I learned the Truth about God I felt incredibly FREE as well as incredibly angered (righteous indignation). I show absolutely NO MERCY to the blasphemous Trinity doctrine... NONE whatsoever.
What I would like to know is, WHY do people for whatever reason STOP at Verse 14 of Exodus Chapter 3? Why don't they continue on to Verse 15 and actually READ what God Almighty states that His personal name truly is FOREVER as seen in the following respected Bible translations?:
** Consequently, "JEHOVAH" is God's personal name as commonly pronounced in ENGLISH and "YAHWEH" is God's personal name as commonly pronounced in HEBREW. **
CiaoSource(s): Truth... and nothing but. Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the Jesus of THE BIBLE who is the only begotten SON of God THE almighty, NOT some "Schizo-Christ" of imperfect mans imagination who supposedly is his own Father (100% God & 100% man). That's 100% non-Biblical. Alma, you are to be COMMENDED for asking us our stance and getting your information straight from the horse's mouth (from we who are dedicated and baptized Jehovah's Witnesses) rather than getting misinformation from those who erroneously THINK they know about us but don't. On behalf of ALL Jehovah's Witnesses... We THANK YOU Alma (it says a lot about your character). :-D *** Should You Believe in the Trinity?: http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm?article=a... ***
- kosmoskiLv 43 years ago
Well the equal method that we have got a individual identify and might love to be known as by means of our identify as a substitute of Man, Woman, Boy & so forth is the equal method that God feels. Psalms eighty three:18 says "May folks understand that you simply, whose identify is Jehovah,You on my own are the Most High over the entire earth." The proven fact that his identify is stated within the Bible suggests God desires his identify to be identified & considering the fact that we're his witnesses or fans, we're known as Jehovah's Witnesses.
- fixerkenLv 79 years ago
What is really funny is that the first time I AM was stated was with Moses, the true God was known to Moses but Moses still asked who should I say sent me. Now if Moses knew God which he did why would he ask who sent him? What Moses was asking is how the true God was going to deliver his people out of bondage. When the true God said to tell the land of Egypt that I AM sent you he was saying he would do what ever it would take for his people to be set free.
When you read JW Guy answer you see how this fits.
Matt 6:9 shows that Jesus explained that we should pray for God's name to be sanctified, this means to "make holy" God's name.
I AM doesn't say that is God's name but at Psalms 83:18 we see what God's name is, it is Jehovah, if your Bible doesn't have the name Jehovah then who ever translated your Bible is guilty of changing scriptural reference. Who would want to do this, only Satan the Devil and whoever was under his control would be so brazen as to change what the Bible says and when you think it through if one place has been changed then how many other places have been changed?
- 9 years ago
There are two errors at work here on the part of Trinitarians:
1) Citing an inaccurate translation of Exodus 3:14 which misquotes God as describing himself as 'I Am'. A little research would show that a more accurate translation of the Hebrew of God's self-description is more along the line of: 'I will be', 'I will become' or 'I shall prove to be' -- all future tense, not present tense. By this designation, God was reassuring Moses -- and by extension the nation of Israel enslaved in Egypt -- that he can and would become whatever is necessary -- anything that is necessary -- to fulfill his promise to liberate them.
2) Intentional or unintentional ignorance of koine Greek grammar resulting in them connecting the Greek for I Am as used by Jesus at John 8:58 with the INACCURATE translation of Exodus 3:14. The fact is that the present tense of 'to be' can be used in koine Greek to refer to existence starting from the past and continuing down to the future. Jesus was simply saying that he existed from before Abraham's time to the present -- in answer to the question asked by his opposers. It's as simple as that! But it's just too simple for minds looking for a Trinity.
BTW: At least one translation of John 14:28 quotes Jesus as saying: "... the Father is greater than I am." So, then, according to Trinitarian misinterpretation the Father is greater than God. LOL.
The Father ALONE is the true God. (John 17:3)Source(s): The falsehood of the Trinity is revealed here: http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm
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- Anonymous9 years ago
Do you believe Jesus is his own father...the God almighty Jehovah??
Jesus is the human name given to the first Son of God almighty Jehovah (John 3:16 and Luke 1:32 and Psalms 83:18) when was sent to earth.
Jesus is not the God almighty....the God almighty is in heaven as Jesus said in Matthew 6:9-10.
Jesus said: Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.
So his father....Who is Jehovah...is in heaven...while Jesus was here in the earth....nobody can see God almighty and keep living...and people saw Jesus and didn't die.
- Just a messengerLv 69 years ago
Almost every "I am" in John is referring to the deity of Christ, I am the light of the world, I am the door, I am the good shepard, and Christ also says in John, If you don't believe that "I am He", you will die in your sins, also one of the most important is the I AM in John 8:58 it is clear that Jesus was referring to many of the writings of Isaiah in chapter 40 and Moses in Exodus 3:14 where God from the burning bush tells Moses I AM that I AM tell them I AM has sent me unto you. the Jews would be very familiar with this old testament text, so for Jesus to quote them in such a way was blasphemous. So as you will see in verse 8:59 the Jews picked up stones to stone Him. Also in the Greek Septuagint (which is the old testament translated into Greek) the same words used in Exodus 3:14 ego iemi (I am) are used in John which was also written in Greek.