Anonymous
Anonymous asked in Society & CultureReligion & Spirituality · 9 years ago

JW's can you prove through the bible ALONE that the trinity doctrine is false ?

Ok, the word trinity is not in the bible that does not mean the concept isn't ( Mat 28:19, 2 Cor 13:14 and 1 John 5:7 )

Can you show me through scriptures (Gods Holy Words ) ONLY that it is not true.

Please NO quotations from other sources -- watchtower literature, encyclopedias, church history books, scholars, Hebrew or Greek languages etc...

Only use bible verses with your own comments if you like.

p/s I wont block any answerer and I will try to reply to as many of you as I can.

Remember NO quotations from your favourite sources.

Thanks.

verses quoted are from the KJV 1611

Update:

@ Greg O and Elizabeth Ansel -- You provide no scriptures but your own opinions only, this is no help to me.

@ Skeptik -- ( Heb 1:8 ) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever.

(Acts 5:3-4) read these verses. Peter said lying to the Holy Ghost was the same as lying to God.

So if the Father is God, and the Son and Holy Ghost is God -- what does that make ?

@ ethan(n_e.. -- Come on !.. read (1Cor 15: 1-4 ) Christ died for our sins..was buried and rose again the third day. Jesus is also called King of kings and Lord of lords (1Tim 6:15 ). Also in (John 2:19-22 and 10:18) Jesus said he would resurrect himself from the dead and had the power to take his life back after the crucifixion. Yet (Acts 2:32 ) says God raised Jesus from the dead.

Now either Jesus lied or he is God in the flesh ( John 1:1,14 ).

@ Zebra Striking -- read any other english bible and it will tell you ( John 1:1,14 ) and the Word was God ..And the Word was made flesh. (1Tim 3:16 ) God wa

Update 2:

manifest in the flesh. If the NWT translators had not changed (John 1:1 and Col 1:16 ) what would these verses tell you about Jesus Christ ?

@ amumoth - (Phil 2:6-8) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.But made himself of no reputation..form of a servant..in the likenes of men..found in fashion as a man..he humbled himself..

Here is the answer, Jesus had two natures, fully =God and fully=Man. Jesus made HIMSELF of no reputation, a servant and a man etc, God did not do this, Jesus did it himself because he was God in the flesh (John 1:1,14 ). It is a mystery how God became flesh (1Tim 3:16 ) we only have to believe he did not how.

(John 14:28 ) for my Father is greater than I -- notice how Jesus said my Father not my God is greater than I. Greater does not mean better because Jesus is part of the Godhead (Col 2:19 ) As a man he said this not as God. Remember his dual nature.

@ bar_enos - Jesus raised himself from the dead (John 2:19 ), God raise

Update 3:

Jesus from the dead (Acts 2:32 ) the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (Rom 8:11 )

Who raised Jesus from the dead ?

(Eph 4: 3-6 ) Endeavouring to keep the UNITY of the Spirit..one body, one Spirit..One Lord, One God and Father.

The Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is a unity or a tri-unity that cannot be seperated throughout scripture. Different functions but a unity to form the Godhead ( Rom 1:20 and Col 2:9).

@ Elijah -- (Col 1:15-18) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature..For by him were all things created..And he is before all things..and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the church; who is the begining, the firstborn from the dead, that all things he might have preeminence.

Self explanatory when you read another English bible without added words (other ) NWT.

Jesus created all things, he is before all things, because he is God (John 1:1 )

Notice the word (is) in these verses all written in the present tense !

Update 4:

@ Abernathy the fool - (Ps 12:6-7) The words of the Lord are pure words. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation forever.

Why could God Almighty who created the heavens and the earth not preserve his words in English for us ? The answer is that he did preserve them - (2 Pet 1:21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

(2 Tim 3:16 ) All scripture is given by inspiration of God.

(Mat 24:35 ) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

If you want to learn Hebrew and Greek - go a head. Nobody who reads an english bible has to learn those dead languages because God has preserved his words in our language. All we have to do is study and believe Gods word (2 Tim 2:15 ).

(1 John 5:13 ) These things have I written unto you..that ye may know that ye have eternal life.

God inspired John to write these words for us. What a wonderful God ! we can kno

Update 5:

know about eternal life before we die. An unsaved person does not have to understand the trinity or deity of Christ etc, to get saved. Just believe the gospel by faith only (Acts 16:31, Rom 10:17, and Eph 1;13 ) remember Christ died for our sins not the trinity, the Father or the Holy Spirit (but they all have a part to play in our salvation )

@ Mindy -- what original bible and where is it ? it does not exist. There are thousands and thousands of copies of copies of the Hebrew and Greek mss etc -- all the originals are lost. For over 400 years people have believed (1John 5:7 ) in the KJV bible as being a cross reference to (Mat 28:19, 2 Cor 13:14 ) and many other verses pointing to Christ's deity ( John 1:1, Col 1:16, Heb 1:8 and John 20:28 )

Read these verses about the importance of defending bible doctrine.

(Acts 17:11 ).. they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether so things were so.

(2 Tim 3:16-17 ) All scripture is given by i

Update 6:

inspiration of God, and is profitable for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

This seems clear to me. We are to search the scriptures to find out if a doctrine is correct or false in fact, the word of God makes us perfect when we rely on it alone. Do you believe that Gods word is the final authority on all matters regarding doctrine and faith ?

I DO !

@ Chuck -- (Heb 13:8 ) Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.

What does the word "same' mean ? It couldn't be as a man and not as an angel !

The answer - the eternal God ( John 1:1 )

Trust Jesus for your salvation and believe in your heart that he died for your sins on the cross -- and I will meet you in heaven as a fellow brother in Christ -- please think about it.

@ Bar- Anerges -- Why cannot the concept of a trinity be in the bible ?

(Rom 1:20 ) For the invisible things of him from the creation of th

Update 7:

the world are clearly seen..even his eternal power and Godhead.

( Col 2:9 ) For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

The power of the Godhead dwells in Christ's body. We know in (John 1:3 and Col 1:16-17 ) that Christ is before all things because he created all things.

(Gen 1:1 ) God created the heaven and the earth -- how did he do this ? answer : he spoke creation into existence through his > Word < ( John 1:1 and Rev 19 :13 ) the Word was God.

God is one God (Eph 4:6 and Js 2:19 ) but what does "one" mean ? why cannot it not mean a composite unity ? e.g ( Gen 1:26, 3:22, and 11:7 ) - where God is spoken of in the plural.

Now why do you believe it is unreasonable and illogical for God Almighty who created the heavens and earth to humble himself and come to earth as a man?

Update 8:

@ Bar-Anerges - please take this verse to heart when you read the bible.

(Proverbs 3:5 ) Trust in the Lord with all thine HEART; and lean not unto THINE UNDERSTANDING

(caps mine )

Dont try and understand every scripture with your own "intellect" -- trust and believe Gods words even if you dont understand it all.

Now you say the trinity doctrine is ridiculous because you believe it is illogical according to your own understanding of the concept -- right ?

Then be consistent with other teachings in the bible -- God "Spoke" creation into existence (Gen chap 1) -- do you understand how God did this ? is it illogical and ridiculous to you ?

Update 9:

(Heb 11:3 )

Through FAITH we understand that the worlds were framed by the WORD of God

We cannot understand with our own intellects how the worlds are framed by the word of God - we believe it through faith only. By the way who is the word of God in the bible ? -- Jesus Christ

You do believe all the miracles from God in the bible even though we cannot understand them - right ?

God came to earth as a man (Jesus Christ ) lived a perfect and sinless life, died on the cross for our sins, rose again 3 days later, then he went back to heaven and is on the right side of the Father as our mediator. -- absurd and illogical to you ?

Its your choice to either believe this or reject it but it is biblical ( John 1:1,14, 1Cor 15:1-4, 1Tim 2:5, and Heb 10:12 )

Update 10:

@ Chuck - Hi again, just a couple of comments on your reply. Did you read (Eph 4:5-6 ) ?

...One Lord... One God and Father of all.

These are Titles referred to Jesus aswell (Isa 9:6, John 1:1 and Tit 1:4 ) Father, Son, and Holy Ghost = One God

Also in (John 5:18 and John 10:33) being the Son of God made Jesus not only equal with God but God himself -- now who are you going to believe, the words of Jesus or the hypocritical jews ?

Keep searching for the truth.

p/s - you are an unbaptized JW, stay that way - trust Jesus for your salvation (Rom 10:9-10 ) and become a christian. Their no such thing as an unbaptized christian. Read (Eph 1:13 and 1Cor 12:13 ) we are baptized by the Spirit ( 3rd person of the trinity ) into the body of Christ when we believe the gospel

Update 11:

Thanks everybody for your answers. I couldn't reply to every point made but I read your answers.

The bible is our final authority on all matters regarding faith (2 Tim 3:16 and Heb 4:12 )

Please choose who you think gave the best answer.

18 Answers

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  • 9 years ago
    Best Answer

    Greetings,

    JWs reject the Trinity not just because the word "Trinity" is not found in Bible. But because the very "concept" is not found in the Bible and the Trinity teaching contradicts every explicit and clear Bible statement regarding God and Christ.

    Just because the three are mentioned together does not prove that they are equal. If it does then there is just as good a basis for believing that the trinity is composed of God, Christ and the Angels (1Tim.5:21; Mk.13:32; Lk.9:26). Or that "water, blood and spirit" are persons or the same 1 Jn5:8. What about "one Lord one faith one baptism" Eph. 4:5.

    Further, EVERY verse offered as proof of the Trinity fails. EVERY Trinitarian argument demands ignorance from their hearers regarding Scriptural terms, context and grammar and also must force a later meaning into Scripture (anachronism). And EVERY "proof text" for the Trinity is known to be spurious.

    Because all Trinitarian arguments rely on presupposition they are eisegesis, not exegesis and thus cause Scripture to contradict itself.

    On the other hand, everywhere in the Bible God is separate and distinct from Christ. There are hundreds of verses which clearly show that Jesus is inferior to Almighty God. There are dozens of explicit scriptures spoken by Christ himself which completely contradict every facet of Trinitarian teaching.

    IF JESUS IS ALMIGHTY GOD:

    1 Then how could he be WITH God (ho theos)? (Jn1:1)

    2 Then how can he have a God? Could Almighty God have a God? (Mic.5:4, Ps.45:6,7; 89:26, Jn20:17, Rm.15:6, Rev.1:6; 3:2,12)

    3 Then why is he subject to GOD, like we're subject to him? (1Cor.15:27,28, Eph 1:17)

    4 Then why does Jesus not know what God knows? (Mt. 24:36, Rev.1:1, Lk.8: 45)

    5 Then why is Jesus still subject to God when he is as high as he will ever be? (1Cor15:27,28)

    6 Then why is he not powerful enough to subject things to himself? (1Cor15:27, Eph1:17,22)

    7 Then why would he have to be GIVEN any power and authority? (Mt28:18; 11:27, Jn 5:22; 17:2; 3:35; 2Pt.1:17)

    8 Then why did he have to LEARN anything? (Heb.5:8, Jn.5:19; 8:28)

    9 Then why is speaking against him not as bad as speaking against the Holy Spirit? (Mt12:31,32, Lk12:10)

    10 Then why did he need to be saved? (Heb.5:7, Jn12:27)

    11 Then why did he have to be EXALTED to Leader and Savior? (Ac.5:31)

    12 Then how could he be EXALTED and GIVEN a higher name than he had? (Php.2:9-11, Heb1:2-4)

    13 Then why did he have to be GIVEN life in himself? (Jn.5:25,26)

    14 Then how can the father be greater than him? (Jn14:28)

    15 Then why did he worship the father? (Jn 4:22)

    16 Then why can he not do anything on his own? (Jn 5:19; 6:38)

    17 Then why would he pray to anybody? (Lk22:44, Jn17:1,2, Heb.5:7)

    18 Then why does Scripture say he was BORN and is PART OF Creation? (Col.1:15)

    19 Then how could he be a BEGOTTEN God? (Jn 1:18)

    20 Then how can he be God's servant? (Ac 4:26,27,30)

    21 Then how could he receive strength from an angel? (Lk.22:43)

    22 Then how could he be a MEDIATOR between GOD and man? (1Tim 2:5)

    23 Then why is "God head of Christ just as Christ is head of man"? (1Cor.11:1)

    24 Then how can he be GOD's IMAGE? (Col.1:15 , Heb.1:3)

    25 Then why is he called the AGENCY (dia) of creation and not the Originator (ek)? (1Cor.8:6, Jn. 1:1-3, Pro. 8:30, Heb. 2:10, Col.1:15,16)

    26 Then why did Jesus say GOD was "good" in a way that Jesus was not? (Mk 10:18)

    27 Then why does he have an archangels voice instead of God's voice? (1Thes.4:16)

    28 Then why is the only "worship" given to him the same given to humans? (Heb. 1:6, cf. Mt. 18:26, Rev. 3:9 - Proskuneo)

    29 Then why is he never given worship that only God receives? (Mt 4:10 -Latreuo)

    30 Then how could he get commanded to do anything? (Jn.12:49, De.18:18)

    31 Then why did Steven see two separate entities, GOD and Jesus, and not just one God or three persons? (Ac 7:55)

    32 Then how could he be seen at GOD's right hand? (Lk.22:69, Ac 7:55, Rm.8:34)

    33 Then why would he have to RECEIVE a revelation from God? (Rev.1:1)

    34 Then why is he called God's "begotten" Son before he came to earth? (Jn. 3:16, Gal.4:4, 1Jn.4:9)

    35 Then how could he have a FATHER? (Jn 20:17)

    36 Then how could he come in flesh? (1Kngs 8:27, Ac 17:24,25)

    37 Then how could he appear before GOD? (Heb.9:24)

    38 Then how could he die? Can God Die? Can part of God die? (Rm.5:10; Ac 5:30; 1Cor. 15:3; Hab.1:12; cf. Nu 23:19; Ps. 90:2; Dan.6:25-26).

    39 Then why can we see him? (Jn.1:18)

    Bonus question:

    40 Then why did Trinitarians have to add and subtract from Scripture to support the Trinity? (1Jn.5:7,8, 1Tim.3:16, Jn.1:18, Ac.7:59, Rev.22:18,19).

    Yours,

    BAR-ANERGES

    EDIT,

    Your response is an irrelevant distraction. The issue is NOT "Why couldn't it be in the Bible," but that it's NOT in the Bible! God could have said that dogs lay eggs. But he didn't so it would be ridiculous to believe that; just as it's ridiculous to believe the Trinity!

  • Anonymous
    6 years ago

    Jehovah's Witnesses are ignorant . They don't have a clue regarding scripture , The Watchtower Book Society don't understand scripture in fact they have written their own Bible claiming it is the only true translation ( The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures is not worth the paper its written on ! they have re-written the NWT last year 2013 . This translation has added and taken away from scripture , In Colo 1:16 its states that Christ created all things however the the NWT has added the ENGLISH Word (OTHER) because they know full well that just this ONE Verse confirms Jesus was God in the flesh because He created all things and only GOD created ALL THINGS .

    The JWs have removed many other well known trinity verse John 1:1 they render the verse ...And the word was a god ....So according to the Watchtower Society Jesus is a Little god ??? and JEHOVAH is the Big GOD ? This makes them guilty of accepting two gods even tho Is 45:5 Yahweh or Jehovah says there is none else Besides Me . There is only ONE GOD ....not two or three ! yet this cult claims that people who believe in the Trinity accept three god why do they accept two gods ???

  • Mindy
    Lv 6
    9 years ago

    Those verses that you posted NOWHERE either says or even hint's on suggesting that God, Christ, and the holy spirit constitute a Trinitarian Godhead, that the three are equal in substance, power, and eternity. Nope, they absolutely, positively do not, no more than listing three people, such as Tom, Dick, and Harry, mean that they are three in one.

    What the Scriptures you posted ONLY prove is that there are three subjects named, but they DO NOT PROVE, by themselves, that all the three belong necessarily to the divine nature, and possess equal divine honor whatsoever.

    1 John 5:7 is a completely different story altogether because it is widely known knowledge (at least to people who actually take the time to investigate the FACTS) that the words; "and these three are one", were NOT originally in the Bible but were added much, much later.

    That's right dude, those words ("and these three are one") do not appear in ANY of the very early copies of the Bible. They were added by someone who (like you) was trying to support the Trinity teaching. Since it is crystal clear that those words are not really part of God’s Word, corrections have been properly made and the words do not appear in newer Bibles. Many modern Bible translations RIGHTLY omit the spurious unscriptural verse of; "and these three are one", as can be seen within the following BIBLE translations (to name but a few, there are MANY others):

    1 John 5:7, 8 NAS (New American Standard):

    "For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood ; and the three are in agreement"

    1 John 5:7, 8 BBE (Bible in Basic English):

    "And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is true. There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood: and all three are in agreement."

    1 John 5:7, 8 CJB (Complete Jewish Bible):

    "There are three witnesses - the Spirit, the water and the blood - and these three are in agreement."

    1 John 5:7, 8 ESV (English Standard Version):

    "For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree."

    1 John 5:7, 8 GW (GOD'S WORD Translation):

    "There are three witnesses: the Spirit, the water, and the blood. These three witnesses agree."

    1 John 5:7, 8 GNT (Good News Translation):

    "There are three witnesses: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and all three give the same testimony."

    1 John 5:7, 8 CSB (Holman Christian Standard):

    the Spirit, the water, and the blood-and these three are in agreement.

    1 John 5:7, 8 NCV (New Century Version):

    "For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three witnesses agree"

    1 John 5:7, 8 NIRV (New International Reader's Version):

    "There are three that give witness about Jesus. They are the Holy Spirit, the baptism of Jesus and his death. And the three of them agree."

    1 John 5:7, 8 NRS (New Revised Standard):

    "There are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree"

    1 John 5:7, 8 NWT (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures):

    "For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement."

    I could go on, and on, and on, and on, and on with this (as there are many other Bible translations)... But I think you get the point (if not, that in itself says a lot).

    Actually, this is starting to bore me. Not because of the topic of your question, but rather, because you are requesting that we "prove" to you that the Trinity is false through the Bible. We don't look to "prove" anything. The truth doesn't need to be "proved", the truth just simply IS and all we do is direct a person to where that truth can be SEEN / FOUND. You are not looking for the Truth at all. You are dead set STUCK on what you ALREADY believe and regardless of what is shown to you by us through Scripture, you will desperately try to find a Scripture that "seems" to fit your belief (i.e John 2:19). A person who is really seeking to know the truth about God does not do that. They do not search the Bible hoping to find a text that can be construed as fitting what they already believe. They truly want to know what GOD'S WORD THE BIBLE itself says (certainly not base their understanding on one particular Bible version that doesn't even phrase itself in our modern day English vocabulary).

    Such a person may definitely find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way (like those you posted), but when these are compared with other Biblical statements ON THE SAME SUBJECT their meaning becomes crystal clear. It should also be noted that most of the texts used as “proof” of the Trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so these would not prove that the Bible teaches the Trinity.

    Anyway, the following Scriptures within the link (taken from The Amplified Bible translation) show that the Trinity teaching is bogus:

    http://tinyurl.com/4ero2cp (continued: http://tinyurl.com/49m2d6k )

    Source(s): On a final note, consider the account of Satan's attempt at tempting Jesus in the wilderness, recorded at Matthew 4:1-11. If Jesus really were God... A) Satan would not have even bothered tempting the One who COULD NOT have failed. B) Jesus would not have constantly been referring to God as a separate person and how he should not put Him to the test. C) It would have been pointless for Satan to offer "all the kingdoms of the world" to Jesus since it is ONLY by God's ALLOWANCE that Satan has control over them in the first place. D) Satan's request for Jesus to worship him would have been ABSURD to both of them. E) Jesus would never have said, "Begone, Satan! for it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord (Jehovah) your God and him only shall you serve.'" (Mt. 4:8-10) RSV. Jesus said that his worship belongs to God, not Satan. If Jesus was God, this statement would make absolutely no sense at all whatsoever.... Just like the Trinity doctrine. I'm outta here. Ciao
  • 9 years ago

    You present a contradictory requirement: You don't allow "Hebrew or Greek languages," but want JWs to prove that the Trinity is false using "the Bible alone."

    The problem is you yourself are using a biblical aid - a translation of the original Bible. Using a translation of the Bible, and not the original Bible, is in fact using a biblical aid.

    With that being said, the verses you present are not "proofs" for the Trinity. Mat 28:19 does not say the three mentioned are one God. 1 John 5:7 says they are "one," but it doesn't say what the "one" is (One person? One being? One in unity?). 2 Cor 13:14 doesn't exist.

    The Bible says there is one God - Mark 12:29, James 2:19. It never mentions three in connection with God. It never states the doctrine of the Trinity. The burden of proof rests with Trinitarians. JWs can point to scriptures differentiating the Father from the Son, to verses saying God is one. Trinitarians have no scriptures saying God is one being but three persons.

    The Bible never says that you have to believe in the Trinity to be saved - a comment often made by Trinitarians. The Bible explicitly says: "But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name." John 20:31

    ====

    2 Cor 13:14 exists, but not in most Bible translations. Looks like the KJV verse ordering is a bit different. But this verse doesn't prove a Trinity any more than Matt 28:19.

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  • 9 years ago

    Where do I begin? There are many scriptures all over the bible which shows a separation from Jehovah the Father and Jesus the son. Holy spirit is a power or active force that emanates from God, not a person. Consider:

    Psalms 110:1 The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is:

    "Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet."

    Is Jehovah speaking to a part of himself that is separate, that would sit on his right hand? Absolutely makes no sense.

    Also, Jesus was first born of all creation. (Col 1:15) So, when it speaks about two Gods in John 1:1, it actually shows that separation because it says in the Greek that Christ was "towards" God. Check out http://www.biblegate.com to see all the different translations. So, we are not denying Christ's divinity as some think. And go to John 1:18 'No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

    If a child is in a bosom position with their mother or father, are they not next to them? Are they not dear to their heart? They certainly are not the same person. No wonder those that have no formal religious teachings have so much trouble grasping this concept. Of course, the clergy have a lot of trouble grasping it as well.

    OH, BTW, just say your part about no quoting from a source, I rarely do for your little group. It just comes from my heart and mind and mostly LOGIC! Peace!

  • Yes.

    You have disregarded all the scriptures cited by my brothers & sisters, which show that even though you ask for scriptures that disprove the Trinity, you prefer to cling onto your own preconceived ideas rather than accept scripture.

    Matthew 24:36 clearly shows that the Son didn't know what the Father knows, so how can he be God?

    If he is God, then you'd have to assume that Jesus was lying when he said he didn't know, and only the father knows.

    So, do you think Jesus was lying in this scripture?

    "“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father."

    (New International Version)

    Also, look at John 1:18 where it says - "No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

    (King James Version)

    Notice it says that no man has seen God AT ANY TIME.... that means never, ever.

    Many people saw Jesus, didn't they?

    So, Jesus cannot be God.

    Will you also dismiss those scriptures in favour of your own preconceived ideas?

  • Anne
    Lv 5
    9 years ago

    It seems that most points have been covered very well!

    The trinity says there are 3 persons, co-equal and co-eternal.

    However the Bible shows there are 2 persons, and Jesus is not co-equal or co-eternal with the Father YHWH.

    The Jews worshiped ONE God, YHWH/Jehovah. This did not change when Jesus arrived. Mark 12:29

    However, I would like to point out also that in the Bible the Holy Spirit is referred to as God's hand or fingers and not another person.

    Luke 11:20; Matthew 12:28

    Psalms 8:3; Genesis 1:2;

    Psalms 8:3,6;

    Feel free to study more Bible truth here;

    http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/article_00.htm

  • 9 years ago

    Peace.

    The only verses allegedly in the Bible that suggest the Jesus is YHWH/ JEHOVAH, have been proven to be incorrectly rendered, these are: 1 John 5:7, Revelation 1:11, 1 Timothy 3:16, and John 1:1c.

    http://hubpages.com/hub/Bible-Gods-Thoughts-Reveal...

    Although there is available today an abundance of information to show the pagan attributes of the Trinity doctrine, this article shall use the Bible, the ONLY TRUE AUTHORITY of TRUE CHRISTIANS to distinguish The Only Living God Almighty [YHWH, translated

    JEHOVAH in English] and the One whom God SENT [John 8:42], Jesus the anointed One [Christ] or Messiah.

    John 8:42 reads: Jesus said to them: "If God were your Father, you would love me , for from

    God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that

    One sent me forth.

    Why Jesus is NOT JEHOVAH?

    1. By his own admission. John 5:19, 30; John 7:17, John 8:42, John 12:49, John 14:28,

    John 20:17, Matthew 24:36, Matthew 4:10, Matthew 7:21 etc.

    2. Psalm 110:1 and 4 compared with Hebrews 6:20, 8:1, 2, 4:15, Matthew 22:41- 46.

    These Scriptures show that Jesus Christ is High Priest to God. God CANNOT be

    High Priest to himself can he?

    3. Deuteronomy 18:18, 19 compared with John 1:19-21, 25-27; 6:14; 7:40; Acts 3:19-26

    Jehovah God mentioned a Prophet that was to come similar to Moses [would liberate the people from any entanglement so they can pursue true worship of God]. This Prophet was to SPEAK only TRUTH from God himself. John 12:49, John 8:42; John 18:37, Matthew 21:9 - 11.

    4. When Jesus Christ was tempted by the Devil [slanderer] to do an act of worship to him, Satan [resister], Jesus directed Satan to God's Word [Bible] saying this privilege was

    God's ONLY.

    Matthew 4:10, compare with Deuteronomy 6:13- 15.

    5. At Matthew 27: 46 we read: And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" NKJV.

    Who was this God? Yes, my friends, Jesus was speaking to Almighty God, Jehovah.

    Compare Psalm 22:1.

    6. There are various references of the God and Father of Jesus Christ. Please read; 1 Peter 1:3, Romans 15:6, 2 Corinthians 1:3, Ephesians 1:3, John 20:17, Revelation 1:6, 3:12, 2 Corinthians 11:31.

    NOTE PLEASE that EVEN when Jesus is glorified and in heaven he refers to his God [Revelation 3:12]. N.B. God Almighty JEHOVAH, is THE MOST HIGH

    [Psalm 83:18]

    he CANNOT BE ELEVATED ANY HIGHER SINCE HE IS AND HAS

    ALWAYS BEEN THE MOST HIGH. [Re 4:8 - 11; Hebrews 12:18 - 29 compared with Philippians 2:5 - 11.

    7. Jesus is identified as taking the scroll from the hand of the One seated on the throne in the heavens [that is from God's hand]. Revelation 5: 7.

    8. Jesus is compared to an angel of God, at Galatians 4:14. This is supported by Proverbs 8:22-31, Hebrews 1: 5; Hebrews 8: 1, 2; Philippians 2: 5- 11; Revelation 3:14; 1 Thess. 4: 16. Col. 1:15, John 3:13, Daniel 7: 13, 14, Micah 5: 2.

    9. Almighty God is from everlasting to everlasting [Psalm 90:2, Revelation 4:10,11], He

    CANNOT DIE, Jesus had to die for redemption to be a reality [John 3:16, etc.]

    http://hubpages.com/hub/Biblical-Questions-Answere...

    Source(s): seeking
  • 9 years ago

    1 Timothy 1:17

    "Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, [the] only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."

    God is incorruptible.

    Jesus was corruptible- he died. You may say that "only Jesus' human form is corruptible," but it still stands that God is *absolutely* incorruptible. (You cannot be more incorruptible or less incorruptible. You either are or are not corruptible.) So, no matter what form Jesus was in, at one time he was corruptible. Therefore he is not God.

    God is invisible.

    Jesus was visible at one time. Therefore Jesus cannot be God.

    Acts 2:32, 33 say, "This Jesus God resurrected, of which fact we are all witnesses. Therefore because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out this which YOU see and hear."

    God resurrected Jesus- therefore Jesus cannot be God. The next part of this scripture says that Jesus was "exalted to the right hand of God..." This means at one time, Jesus was not at the right hand of God. If Jesus was "exalted" by God, then Jesus could not be God.

    The next part of this scripture says that Jesus "received the holy spirit from the Father..." This part proves that the holy spirit is something that *belongs* to the Father. This also proves that the holy spirit is not a person because it is "poured out."

    Lastly, to tie all of this together, 1 Timothy 1:17 says that God is "King of eternity." Acts 2:33 says that Jesus was "exalted" to God's right hand as *King.* (1 Peter 3:22)

    God being "King of eternity" is always, and has always been, King. Jesus was just exalted as King. So, Jesus cannot be God.

  • 9 years ago

    Not a JW, but ...

    First, explain what you mean by "the trinity doctrine." Because all three of the verses you mention are consistent with the idea of three separate and un-equal individuals, rather than all three being the same entity.

    In fact, I never understood how anyone used the passage from 1 John to support the Trinity, since the rest of the chapter (including the paragraph that surrounds your verse) explicitly distinguishes Jesus and "the Father." Father and son, not one and the same.

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