Lv 6
Sigil asked in Social ScienceGender Studies · 10 years ago

Outside of game, there isn't a lot of relationship advice for men being generated?

and I saw this on Pelle Billings Gender Liberation beyond Feminism site and I thought I'd post it here....

"You may not have learned it in school, and your parents may not have taught you, but relying on traditional gender roles to get you where you want is uncertain at best. In this day and age we need to turn to individual negotiation, something that men especially need to start becoming aware of. Women have already made this transition to a much greater extent, thanks to the women’s movement. Women are more aware of their choices, and evolutionary speaking women have always had to think about how good a deal they can get when interacting with men.

Men, on the other hand, still believe that they need to perform their traditional duties in every area of life, and are rarely fully conscious of what they offer and what they get in return. If you are a man reading this, I therefore offer you this checklist of things to become aware of in your everyday life:

* Do you help your female friend repair stuff or do you help her move or carry things that she finds heavy? If you do, then you should fully expect her to come to your house to cook and clean every now and then.

* Do you buy drinks or dinners for women when dating? If you do, then what are you getting in return, financially? If the answer is nothing, then why are you doing it?

* Do you really want to spend $10,000-100,000 on a fantasy wedding? Or is that her fantasy, and her wish? Would she let you buy something of equal value from money that she has brought into the marriage?

* As long as family courts regularly award custody to the mother, it makes sense for every man to have a prenuptial agreement, so that you have the financial power after a divorce to compensate for her having power over the children.

* Do you even want to get married? Do you need to get married to satisfy what you’re after? Or is it enough for you to live with a woman and raise kids together?"

I think that information like this can help some of the guys that turn up here feeling perhaps short changed, confused and sometimes a little angry.

What are your thoughts Gender Studies?

Pelle Billing is a swedish MRA


My take on individual negotiation is that nothing is off limits. You can certainly marry a woman, give her the wedding of her dreams, and then support her for the rest of your life. The question is: What are you getting in return? Are you getting your money’s worth? If you feel that this way of thinking is crass and unromantic, then you are the one to stand corrected. Love is free. Romance is free. No money is needed for two people to talk, kiss or make love. Everything that we have been made to believe is necessary for romance (flowers, expensive dinners, an expensive car, an expensive wedding) has no natural connection to either romance or love. And by the way, have you noticed what gender has decided what to call romantic?

Update 2:

Again, nothing is off limits. You can do anything you want, including traditional romantic gestures. But start by asking yourself why you are doing it, and what you are getting in return. Becoming conscious in this ways is not unromantic, it simply means leveling the playing field with women, and having the chance to face women as their equal.

18 Answers

  • 10 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Specifically on the topic of weddings:

    Most couples now are living together before they decide to get married; they have established themselves as a couple, have established and maintained a household and quite frequently have joint bank accounts. These days, most couples are paying for their own weddings.

    IDK if people are really looking at dating as such a cut and dry equal exchange though. I know when I do something nice for my partner Im not expecting anything but for him to say "Thanks". That's pretty much it.

    At any rate, no, there isn't a ton of advice for guys out there. The bulk of the relationship advice market is geared toward women 19-28 and dumped in Cosmo. Men have.......hmmmm.....Im not sure. Ive never read Maxim, is there anything in there of substance? It does seem like the PUA approach has the most accessibility and results oriented methodology. PUA isn't really anything more than applied psychology

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  • Bee
    Lv 5
    10 years ago

    I basically think the ideas conveyed here are correct; but I also think the way they're worded--the assumptions they're steeped in--makes them more difficult. If I were to boil down what I think he's saying into my own words, we'd have:

    1 and 2: People who like each other generally want to do nice things for each other. It can indicate a problem when the people you like don't take the opportunity to show you how much they care.

    3-5: An open line of communication between partners can ensure that both parties are happy. Don't assume that just because you want something, your partner will too. Be open to compromise with the one you love, when compromise is an option, and open to dialogue and an attempt to understand, when it's not. Love entails opening yourself up completely, giving of yourself unselfishly, and being 100% there for another person. What it need not entail, however, is letting yourself be taken advantage of, being unwise about your future, and surrendering your own happiness to someone else's. Find a balance. And get a prenup.

    I think that's advice I'd give a woman, and it seems to include everything that Billing had to offer--the primary difference being that it's not predicated on traditional gender expectations or the idea that all women are out to scam men.

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  • ?
    Lv 4
    4 years ago

    Re-read your question. In the first line you say"...right now," Even you think it is temporary. Your words belie your assertion that you are not available. "...I am in a relationship..." does not say " I'm taken." It only says, "I'm busy!" You've got to put the right message out if you want the respect you are saying you want. Also, you're only 17. How can you possibly know what "a long time" is? Lighten up and enjoy the prom. Don't be in such a hurry to be "all grown up." Life has some dramatic changes when the "real thing" comes along. If this is truly "Mr. Right" you need to show the world that it is. Dress down. Become less noticeable. It's always intrigued me that women dress to "knock men for a loop" and then don't understand why they are being looked at. Try to fake the contented smile that women wear that tells men "don't bother, I'm happy." As a couple you should be turning "in" toward each other and turning away from "outsiders". Once its real - men will stop.

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  • 10 years ago

    I totally agree that nothing is off limits! Everyone should always be asking if they're being taken advantage of in life. Men should feel totally justified in making sure that a woman he is dating has enough money to contribute financially, and should be feel ok with leaving a woman because she does not seem sufficiently ambitious. (Even if she's hot, guys. Even if she's hot.)

    It's kind of a stereotype to think that all the men you're addressing are better at fixing things than women. Most of the men I know are not very good at fixing things, and will readily admit it. That is a stereotype held by many, though. I have a friend who, when asked to try to fix something just

    because he's a guy, will say "Yes, I'll wave my magic penis at it, and it will be fixed!" It always gets a good laugh from everyone involved. I'd say that's the best way to handle those situations.

    In general, regardless of your gender, if you're good at some practical skill you'll have people asking you for advice. So if you're a person who does happen to be good at fixing things, then you WILL get asked. I'm a computer programmer, so I get people asking me for tech advice all the time. I hear that doctors get asked for medical advice frequently and lawyers get asked for legal advice frequently. I've found that (even if you CAN do something) it's perfectly fine to refuse by saying "Oh, I really don't know." My husband asks one of his handy friends for help when we need to fix something that requires more complicated skills than using a hammer or screwdriver. I'll make bread to thank people sometimes (because in this day-and-age, being able to make your own bread is viewed as something akin to magic!) In general, I don't keep track with a tally of who has helped whom, but if things start getting really unequal I will start refusing.

    Traditionally, it has been the bride's family who has paid for the price of the wedding. The groom usually just pays for his tux and anything related specifically to the groomsmen that he wants to have there. More recently, it has come into fashion for the groom's family to pay for the rehearsal dinner the night before the wedding. The site in the source has a list of who pays for what (traditionally) in a wedding. Now, if the couple getting married wants to do things differently from the tradition, that is up to them. As you're saying, nothing is off limits. It has simply been the traditional thing for the bride's family to pay. Do many grooms pay these days? I know a lot of women say they've been saving up their *whole lives* for their weddings. Do guys do that too?

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  • 10 years ago

    I think that sounds very fair. Women have a lot of options. They can spend the day working a job that used to be reserved only for men, and still demand to get the perks that women traditionally enjoyed: men paying for dates, men fixing stuff and doing "guy chores" around the house, etc. I see no reason why men can't expect and receive from women what women expect and receive from men. Fair is fair, and equal is equal.

    Or guys could look for a more traditional woman. ; )

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  • 10 years ago

    I cook, clean, shop AND fix and repair my own car. I was in the army for 9 years so can carry weights most people I know couldn't even imagine. I brought less money to my marriage as my husband is 10 years older and way ahead in terms of savings.

    My advice to men - take your time making the choice, make sure you have the same aspirations, fantasies and realistic expectations. Discuss the roles you'll take if kids come along. And most of all, don't forget to fall in love.

    Source(s): What will survive of us is love.
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  • Anonymous
    10 years ago

    The best advise for men, would be good advise for everyone. Look before you leap and all that stuff. I agree that the Romance Industry has made it all about how much money is spent and all that nonsense.

    You sir, hit the nail on head; love is free. I had a plain wedding, with a plain wedding band, and wore my best dress instead of a gown.

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  • Anonymous
    10 years ago

    Well, for the first point, why can't men just start doing nice things for people without expecting anything in return? That would solve those "problems." Even though, if I had one of my guy friends help me move, I would definitely do something for him in return but he shouldn't expect it. It's a favor.

    As for the buying dinner and stuff, that should be changed I agree. Why should you have to pay for a date just because you're a man? You can if you choose, but I don't know how many time I've offered to pay on dates for both of us or at least for myself, and the guy insisted that he wanted to pay. Nobody WANTS to pay, he felt like he had to, and he shouldn't feel that way,

    I thought it was the girl's family that paid for the wedding, and the man's that paid for the honeymoon? Anyway, yeah, if a woman wants a huge, fancy wedding, then she should be paying for it.

    Also agree. I don't understand why people don't want to get prenups. It doesn't mean that you're going to get divorced, its just like insurance. Nothing wrong with insurance. It also gets all the nasty details out of the way while both people are still on good terms and still want to best for each other.

    Marriage gets you federal benefits so...

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  • Adam
    Lv 5
    10 years ago


    Love Does Not Keep A Ledger

    My Advice:

    If You Cannot Communicate Properly With A Woman

    She Is Not The One For You

    Nor Are You The One For Her

    Source(s): Put Down The Cosmo Magazine It Is Only Upsetting You
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  • 10 years ago

    I find this attitude very selfish.

    I disagree with all of this. Performing an act of love such as giving a gift should come from the heart and communicate to a woman that you enjoy her company and find her special. If you are giving a woman something just to get something in return, it is not a gift and you are probably too selfish to be in a mature relationship at this point in your life.

    You do nice things because it shows someone you appreciate them, because it feels good to help and give, and to show that you are possible interested in a future with her.

    However, the nature of us humans is that, when we receive some kindness from someone, we feel closer to them and want to do kind things to them in return. If you continue to give and help a woman, this could lead to marriage and all those things listed that the site says a man should expect to get.

    Of course, you need to read your woman a little. Don't let a woman use you. Make sure she is also interested in a long-term relationship leading to marriage with you before doing too much for her. You don’t want to seem desperate or be used, do you?

    As for pre-nups, they are basically a permission slip for either one of you to divorce. If you can't fully commit and trust that you will be together forever, why get married?

    Source(s): Happy wife.
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