Feminists: Do You Really Support Women?
Normally, we get questions in here about feminism being pro-woman instead of pro-equality, but from what I've encountered, it's not pro-woman, either. The reason I am asking this question is to see if the feminists I've met are just some of the "fringe" whackos.
Statement 1: "Women who are 'just' housewives are being oppressed and are stupid."
I have heard statements like this to basically talk down to a woman who has chosen to be a stay-at-home mother. If the point is to allow women a choice, then why get upset when she choses to be a homemaker?
Statement 2: "Any woman who chooses a career in the sex industry was forced into it."
I don't like this because it assumes that those women who choose a career in the sex industry are too stupid to think for themselves. Again, if the point is to allow women to CHOOSE their path, why get upset when a woman does just that?
Statement 3: "Stop violence against women."
Violence against men and children is just as wrong as violence against women, but the feminists I've heard this from don't seem to get that.
Statement 4: "It's always wrong to hit a woman, even if she attacks you, even if it's with a weapon, because women are weaker."
Two problems with this:
1. Either you want equality or special treatment. Since a man would hit another man who hit him first, a man hitting a woman who hit him first would be equal treatment. Asking a man to stand by while you rail on him with a knife is ridiculous.
2. Suggesting that ALL women are weaker than ALL men is sexist. Period. End of story. The back in the avatar is mine and I've busted my share of men's faces. I'm not automatically weak just because I wasn't born with a pair of testicles.
Those are the four main problems I've had with arguments from feminists. Some very off-the-wall stuff I know had to be coming from the fringe (like when a woman told me that one day my eyes would be opened and I'll see that all men should be punished for what they did to women), but these are four of the common statements I hear.
Anyway, am I alone in this? Have you heard these four things commonly, too? Feminists: if you believe these things, then can you defend them?
Butterfly - You agree we need to stop violence against children, but didn't mention anything about stopping violence against men...any reason?
Cat Womyn - I lol'd at how you worded your answer :)
Raptast - You and me, buddy, we'll get the violence going. :) j/k :D
True Brit - Hitting someone in self-defense means you cannot contact the police in time to stop the person from attacking you. That's what makes it "self-defense" as opposed to "just getting into a fight."
Veggie Tart - Would you also suggest that people are "financially pushed" into stealing? I wouldn't. People make choices. You can go into the sex industry or you can work at Taco Bell, lol.
- 10 years agoBest Answer
1. I've heard that kind of thing many times, too. And they will very often turn around and pretend that they didn't actually mean that, or worse, lie and say "I never said that". It's very frustrating. Either be honest and admit that you look down on women staying home, or shut up about the whole thing. It's better than lying.
2. I haven't heard that one, so much as the insistence that "sex work" is just as valid as other careers and that it's okay if a woman chooses to do it. A lot of people think that prostitution should be legal and have no problem with people choosing to strip or do porn. Personally, I don't agree with any of that; it does against my morals, and I also think that those professions are harmful to the "workers" as well as bringing the moral climate of society down. I've never really heard a feminist say that all people in that "industry" are forced into it, not when they're talking about the U.S. or Canada or countries like that.
3. That one makes me insane. People make light of violence against men. It's a joke. And worse, they justify it - "oh, he must have done something really bad to make her hit him". People don't usually say that the woman deserved to be slapped around, but they say it about men all the time. It drives me crazy. Violence is wrong, whether the victim is male or female, old or young. It's wrong.
4. That's a load of crap. Self-defense isn't the same as abusing someone. You're allowed to defend yourself.
- HatrickPLv 510 years ago
They support women who agree with them. A woman who doesn't agree with everything they say is actually considered worse than a man. A traitor.
It's a horrible, horrible movement. And before the extreme fems come in here to bash me, I have first hand experiene with that. Two female friends, one started to turn into an ultra feminist and criticized the way the other handled her relationship, and ended up "de friending" her, if there is such a phrase, over something so ridiculous stupid.
If it was really supporting women they would want FREEDOM. That is, freedom for women to make their own choices. That's the right thing, that's real equality.
I've always used this analogy before:
There are two rooms, blue and yellow. The women are all locked in the yellow room and they're not allowed to go into the blue room.
Feminists basically say: "We'll get you into the blue room, no problem. We can't be stopped, and with everyone help we WILL break down that door and make it to the blue room.
HOWEVER... Once we get you into the blue room, you're NOT ALLOWED to stay in here or come back in here if you want to. That makes you a traitor.
In other words, feminism "liberated" women from traditional gender roles but also told them that if they chose to abide by traditional gender roles they were evil and "counter productive to the movement". Hence why there is so much bashing of stay at home moms and women who are submissive in marriage, etc by feminists.
Now I, as an equalitist, simply say that any right a man has, a woman should also have, and everything a man is not allowed to do, a woman shouldn't be either. True equal rights. However, the trade off is that by my rule, men are also free to go into the yellow room if they want to.
I believe traditional feminism was equalitism but it lost its way as they achieved their objectives and became like disillusioned soldiers, the war being over but being so addicted to fighting that they craved the next one. I mean as an equalitist I believe that either both genders can hit the other or neither, and that either both genders should be allowed to work / stay at home or neither, etc. In other words I simply don't believe that any human being should have more or less rights than another human being.
- butterfly gLv 510 years ago
Here's my response to those four beliefs you just stated...
1. A woman has the right to choose whatever path she choses it doesn't matter if she goes to mars or becomes a housewife. Explanation. Who am i to say what a woman should or shouldn't do. It is a free country and a woman has the right to make whatever choice she pleases. If she becomes a housewife fine. Before my parents divorced my mom was a SAHM. It is a 24 hour a day and 7 day a week job that has no pay the only thing it has is the benefit of raising happy healthy well rounded children. I know a lot of mothers who would rather be at home with their children rather than working. If she wants to stay at home as long as the financial situation is suitable she should but the only two sense i would put in if is consider your husband there are some situations that don't call for that but the woman wants it so badly she completely goes over her husbands head and the next thing you know he has to support a family of 6 with a 40,000 yearly salary while when they were both working they had a combined salary of 80,000. Doing that adds more stress on the husband and can often lead to divorce. Moral of story. If you want to be a stay at home mom go ahead but make sure your husband is in full agreement and he makes enough to support the family.
2. Nope there is always prostitution. While there is a such thing as sex slaves in America. If a woman is a prostitute she chose to do so of her own free will and 9 times out of ten she was not forced into it.
3. We need to stop violence against children. That should be our priority. I mean people have to ask themselves whose more helpless a three year old or a grown woman and the answer is obvious. women have all types of shelters to go to. Where' the three year old going to go when he's being beat by mommy.
4. You took the words right out of my mouth. If a man has to fight back in self defense so be it. If she is beathing you with a metal bat. you better put your foot up her a** and i mean it.Source(s): This Feminist.
- ReneeLv 44 years ago
"So you're saying that every feminist should be held accountable for a few wackjobs. Okay. Sounds fair. Actually, I've said it once and I'll say it again: there are crazy people in every school of thought." So you're saying that every Nazi should be held accountable for a few wackjobs? Okay. Sounds fair. Actually, I've said it once and I'll say it again: Only a fool would use the quoted argument in an attempt to deflect evil done by a group's leaders, by those with power who advocate oppression and persecution of others outside their hate group. By supporting said evil the moronic dupes/powerless supporters condone evil themselves, and therefore are also evil. @Heed: No, it's like accusing all vegitarians of not eating meat. @one of the other imbeciles: "Ben Franklin was a pervert..." What? Since when is liking to have sex with women a perversion? Oh that's right, you're a feminist and do believe that.
- How do you think about the answers? You can sign in to vote the answer.
- 10 years ago
I don't know that I've heard these. A lot of second-wave feminists (of my mother's generation) came of age in an era when women had little choice but to be housewives and maybe the talk against women who choose to stay home is a bit of an overreaction. They were eager to work outside the home and probably don't understand why someone would choose not to.
Sex work. While it's true that not all women are coerced into it by a partner, I suspect a good number are financially forced into it. So society needs to find better options for women who would rather leave sex work and find a way to make it as safe as possible for men and women who do choose that type of work. And there need to be safeguards to ensure that anyone engaged in sex work is over the age of 18.
Violence--while it's true that some women are stronger than some men, generally speaking, men are physically stronger. Generally speaking, women have been the vast majority of victims of violence. Many police departments have failed to take seriously women making complaints against their husband; a particularly famous case is Nicole Brown Simpson. It's quite likely that the cops didn't do much because of her husband's fame, but even when the couple is not famous, it has been hard for women to get help stopping abusive husbands.
As for the rules of not hitting a woman, I think that would no longer apply if the woman was physically attacking someone.
Every group has its fringes. You just have to look for the middle of the pack.
- Know It AllLv 710 years ago
'but from what I've encountered, it's not pro-woman' -- which is why many people like you here -- NOT because you're pro-Male, but your Qs/As don't reflect the presence of inherent gender narcissism. One can be perceived as a fair poster in a gender forum only if they aren't overtly supportive of either gender when it isn't warranted.
>Statement 1: "Women who are 'just' housewives are being oppressed and are stupid."
I have heard statements like this to basically talk down to a woman who has chosen to be a stay-at-home mother.
This has basically been my observation, too [though many deny later]. As you say, if CHOICE has been the key point of Feminism, then wanting to be a SAHM without any repercussions should also be a CHOICE! I don't see how women who CHOOSE to be SAHMS [some prefer to be SAHMs forever, others prefer to be SAHMs until kids go to school, to resume their career] could be criticized!. Either way, we could do well by not shaming SAHMs [and SAHDs] for their choice.
>Statement 2: "Any woman who chooses a career in the sex industry was forced into it."
I don't like this because it assumes that those women who choose a career in the sex industry are too stupid to think for themselves.
You basically took my words out of my mouth!
>Statement 3: "Stop violence against women."
Violence against men and children is just as wrong as violence against women, but the feminists I've heard this from don't seem to get that.
Exactly. See, this is where I notice a double standard. When a Feminist says this, they're applauded [by antis/nons and even some other Feminists], but if I say this, some ulterior motives are assigned to my statements and made fun of because I don't choose to use the label of Feminism to think like this. IMO, that's MORE reason for me to detest this label.
>Statement 4: "It's always wrong to hit a woman, even if she attacks you, even if it's with a weapon, because women are weaker."
I notice the issues in this statement [as you say], and to be fair, a considerable number of Feminists also agree with this. In all fairness, claiming that all women are weaker than men would be as sexist as a generalization as saying all men are stronger than men.
Best question in quite some time! No, you aren't alone in being a rational individual.
- rohak1212Lv 710 years ago
In any group there will always be the radicals. The ones that don't really want equality, they want the inequality to be in their favor. Also, those kinds of people tend to think they are wronged and can't do anything about it. "It's wrong to hit a woman no matter what because she is weaker" translates into "I am too weak to change or defend myself, therefore everyone is like me."
What the radicals never understand is that they do more harm to their cause than good.
- Standing StoneLv 610 years ago
Most of the women I know who hold beliefs 3&4 identify as traditionalists. I've not met any feminist personally who hold any of these beliefs but that's not to say they don't exists. All these things in your list are absolutes and only a Sith deals in absolutes. Part of the initiative of 3rd wave feminism is to eradicate sex negativity and condescension towards domestic engineers. How old are these feminists you met?
- RAPTASTICLv 510 years ago
I don't believe in any of those things, so apparently I'm not a feminist?
As for number 3, I want more violence. Against EVERYBODY. I don't discriminate as long as someone's getting hurt.
- True Blue BritLv 710 years ago
Well, I do, actually. I'm not an equalist - because I believe that women with their ability to bear children and often are the main childcarer are handicapped in many areas.
But I do believe in choice to be a housewife, taking on board the financial risks. I don't believe that all women in the sex industry are forced into it, although I am sorry they do it. I'm not an equalist, however I do believe that women can be evil, and violent and quite capable of violence against men. I do believe it is wrong to hit a woman. I also believe it is wrong to hit a man. Even in self defence. That's what the law is for.
Edit: True - but in most cases when people on this site talk about "self defence" they mean "retaliation". If a man slapped me, I don't think I'd slap him back. If he attacked me, then yes, I would do whatever I had to do to save my self. And that's a different scenario.