Okay I have to ask this question, sorry Cruz Azul fans no offense intended.........?????
Cruz Azul as we all know is one of the "big" teams in Mexico, but let's be real here is Cruz Azul one of the Big 3? Toluca had 3 titles before the short tournaments began now they have 9 and they're right behind Chivas who has 11 and America who has 10. Pachuca they say is a big team but they only have 5 titles tied with Leon who is now in Liga de asenso, and Pumas has 6. Cruz Azul remains with 8 and they obtained their last title in 1997 against Leon. Eventhough they have made 5 finals and lost them all:
Libertadores vs Boca Juniors 2001
Liga Local vs Santos Clausura 2008
Liga Local vs Toluca Apertura 2008
Liga Local vs Monterrey Apertura 2009
CONCACAF Liga de Campeones 2008-09
I guess my question is: has Cruz Azul been replaced in the Big 3 of Mexico???? If so by who???
Smart answers only, I want to know honest opinions. I had this debate with some friends.
@Wolf - I understand what you are trying to say but you are inconsistent at times. For example, you say that America is the most consistent team. How is that possible? Just in your example alone with the championships it shows you're wrong. Chivas has won at least 1 title in every decade since the 50s. America can't claim that. now the fact that 5 were in the 60s is because even before that in the late late 40s and early 50s is when the "Ya merito" existed for Chivas. America hits rachas where they can't win to save their lives and it lasts for full tournaments at a time. In the other hand Chivas has one bad tournament every decade or so. Plus America and Chivas were in primera division since it started, not to mention Chivas completely dominated the amateur era and America doesn't have a single title from that.
Pachuca you say is new, how can that be it's the oldest team in FMF history. Yes Leon is in second division, but remember they were forced to go, no decendieron.
@Billy - I have to agree you guys were robbed in 2008, and i did forgot the Pachuca Final. I personally think Cruz Azul is one of the big 3 because they're consistently having winning seasons, it's just the Final that has killed them. Plus the one they played against Toluca is the only one making that difference and I think that is the one where they got robbed.
@Cruz Azul#16 - I agree to a certain extent. Toluca has done great things. But in my eyes Cruz Azul is 3rd. Your right they marked the 70s and obtained their titles a lot faster than Chivas and America considering that Cruz Azul was not one of the original teams that started the FMF pro-league. People are always talking about what Pachuca has done but Cruz Azul did it first and better.
@ChivaAzteka - I try to be here bro but work gets on the way. Anyway I don't refer to the big 3 because of their titles, I talk about the way the game is played and how they represent the country. Chivas may not have a South American title but it has put better performances than the rest of the teams, Pachuca just happened to win one and Chivas didn't.
Chivas is a consistent team and their cantera is usually the base of the National Team, plus remember they don't bring foreigners and that's a big disadvantage.
America I have to say played it smart in the 80s even the 90s but the team that's there now to me seems like all talk. they need their cantera to come back.
Cruz Azul even with 6 lost finals has had better performances in the local league than most of the other teams including Chivas and America. In that sense they remain as one of the big teams because Chivas, America and Cruz Azul are the only teams who are consist in their performance and history.
@ Maquina92 - How can you say there are no big teams in Mexico? Really you try to compare our league to a European league? The only reason the titles are so spread out in the Mexican league is the stupid Liguilla, when the long tournaments were being done Chivas was ruling then America and Cruz Azul steped up to compete. After that liguilla got started and everything you did the entire year went out the window because it was a new tournament within itself. Thats the only reason why our titles are so spread out in our league, plus you mention that our top teams have 11 and 10 titles. Well if they weren't big teams then why only four stand out and rest are way behind? Chivas 11, America 10, Toluca 9, Cruz Azul 8, and the only ones who come close are 3 teams really Pumas 6, Pachuca and Leon (who is in second division) 5. So you mean to say that all the other teams in our Primera Division and Liga de Acenso can step up any time and represent Mexico the way the top 4 do? are you serious?
@Wolf - Danm bro you put up a good fight i'll give you that, but honestly if you go back to the 90s when Necaxa was the top dog. Necaxa started to create a big fan base. little kids use to go to the games they had against Chivas, America, Cruz Azul with their parents and in National television they would tell their parents. That jersey you have is okay but this one (Necaxa Jersey) is the good one now. Televisa stopped promoting Necaxa and then took Manuel La Puente out from being the coach and some of its players away to keep America as the the top team among the three bothers at the time America, Necaxa and Atlante. In 1994 Necaxa had more players in El Tri than America did to include the National Team's Captain Nacho Ambriz. So in your argument your wrong. Also look at how much the fan base of Pachuca and Toluca grew, they even began a rivalry with Chivas and some what with America. Teams can grow they just need to know how and not have a big brother to stop that growth.
- Anonymous1 decade agoFavorite Answer
Pachuca has dominated the past 10 years, unlike Leon which has spent those past 10 years struggling to return to the premier divison of Mexican Football. Therefore, as of now Pachuca has been one of the greater Mexican Teams. Pumas had limited success in the past 10 years, they picked up three titles and therefore adding those new titles to the great history the team has, they have passed on to be one of the big boys of Mexican Football. As of now Cruz Azul is only good for filling in the second place slots. In the past 3 years alone they had the opportunity to tie Chivas for the number of titles and claim some dominance over their nemesis America.
I would like to divide it like this:
Historically speaking these are the greatest Teams of Mexican Football:
The Past 10 years:
Cruz Azul hasn't been a bad team they just have terrible luck in finals and always seem to choke.
Definitely Cruz Azul has been one of the inferior teams these past years. However, I am yet to see either America, Chivas, or Toluca make it to 3 or 4 consecutive finals (I'm losing track).
However then again... it is stupid to catalog teams as inferior simply because they haven't won anything big in the past 10 years...
take Guadalajara, the single most historic and loved team in Mexico:
1956-57, 1958–59, 1959–60, 1960–61, 1961–62, 1963–64, 1964–65, 1969–70...
Those are 8 Titles almost consecutively In the glory days of Chava Reyes... 8 TITLES OF GUADALAJARA WERE WON IN A SINGLE DECADE AND A HALF! They are still one of the big teams though.
1986–87, Verano 1997 and Apertura 2006. Those were the remaining 3 titles....
So just because Chivas only managed to pick up 3 titles in the past 40 years doesn't mean that they are all small team. They are competitive, strong, and loved by the crowd.
Second... Take America, perhaps equal in beloved as guadalajara
10) 1965-1966, 1970-1971, 1975-1976,1983-1984, 1984-1985, Prode 1985, 1987-1988, 1988-1989, Verano 2002, Clausura 2005
As you can see America has been the most consistent team in the Mexican League of all time... In the past 50 years they only failed to win a title in the 90's... 2 years ago they were playing like a second class team.... But they are still one of mexico's greatest....
Toluca, by your definiton is the big boy right now... 9 titles, rather impressive...
1966-67, 1967-68, 1974-75, Verano 1998, Verano 1999, Verano 2000, Apertura 2002, Apertura 2005, Apertura 2008
6 were won in the past 12 years... who is to say they aren't a big team? Despite the fact that they only won three titles before in the 60's and 70's?
However... Toluca isn't nearly as popular as Cruz Azul...
Not Because of Titles or Recent History...
But because of the Fans...
Cruz Azul, which dominated the 70's has picked up dozens of fans over the years, same as Guadalajara who, as I repeat only won 3 titles in the past 40 years... It is the enormous fanbase... that is what a makes a team small or big... Imagine queretaro wins the league 3 times in a row... They still wouldn't be a cruz azul, because they don't have fanbase nor the history.
While recently... Toluca and Pachuca have much more to claim over Cruz Azul (let us not forget Pachuca is the only non south american team to win la sudamericana), they are still superior due to fanbase and over all history... Before the 2000's Toluca and Pachuca were nowhere on the map.... Think of Monterrey or Santos Laguna as of now.
PS: It is a shame a team like Leon isn't in Primera Division, they are a truly classic team and should be there. They are in a division that they don't deserve to be in. I hope they can come back and win a few titles to claim what is rightfully theres.
Anyways. Thanks for asking, fascinating question.
I strongly agree that promotoras have a huge way of promoting a team (no pun here?), just look at the massive power America has... I've seen America Sports Drinks, Balls, backpacks, and even Diapers!!! (No Joke). Chivas follows closely behind, not because they are inferior, but simply because Vergara is no Televisa. Cruz Azul also gets quite the attention. I will sooner see a wallet or backpack of one of these three teams than the others... so in a way they are the face of Mexican Football. If I show their logo to someone who lives in a Mexican Community but doesn't like soccer or isn't even Mexican they will quickly recognize it, "Oh those are Mexican Soccer Teams". Pumas also has a certain marketability. I have never seen any Pachuca stuff for sale (at least not with the same Pounding Amount as the previously mentioned things). Every team starts out small... America, Cruz Azul, and Chivas all have history and tradition... which is again what Toluca, Puebla, or even Pumas lacks.
I am not undermining any team with this answer, just stating my opinion and facts which I try to keep neutral and based on truth over myth.
I understand that sometimes I can be quite self-contradictory, but the final point is not if when you won the titles but how many people are following. I can make a team and somehow get it in the Mexico League system and win tournament after torunament and we will never be an america or guadalajara. That is the main point of this article (ahaha) I wrote.
- KidoLv 51 decade ago
Add in the Interliga they lost to Ameirca, I believe which was in 2008.
I think Cruz Azul has been replaced. In the last few years, they've been playing like crap, but very effective. In my opinion, I think Cruz Azul has been replaced by Pachuca, despite their sub-campeonatos. You see here, it's about what you achieve they makes the club recognizable and raises pride for that club. Pachuca has won I believe 2 Concacaf Championships, 2 participations in World Cup of Clubs and a lot of Mexican Primera Division championships in the past few years. Cruz Azul hasn't done anything that would make the Cruz Azulinos say that their team is one of the Big 3 of Mexico. Pachuca has been more consistent, but since the change of Meza to Rivarola has brought them down. Cruz Azul needs to be more consistent and change their attitude and have a directiva that brings their heart into the team like Jesus Martinez of Pachuca. A directiva that actually wants to fill the Estadio Azul again like 10 years ago, a dierctiva that wants fans of other teams to envy their achievements, a directiva that wants glory and accomplishments!
- zurd1nh0Lv 51 decade ago
cruz azul is one of the best teams historically speaking and in the present why because we have eight titles and many international titles to.
in the past ten years cruz azul has been in many more finals than chivas and america the ones who are suppose to be the best the ones that have many more years of existence than cruz azul and yet cruz azul has accomplished more in fewer years than any of these two but i got to admit we have a curse that we cant win a final but when we do we will finally shut everyones mouth that we can win a title and hopefully this year we win two the concachampions and the liga
yea we have been replaced in the titles by toluca now we are the fourth team with the most titles but that will change
oh n just to make it worse but im an honest man you forgot another final that we lost vs pachuca
- Anonymous1 decade ago
THERE ARE NO BIG TEAMS IN MEXICO
how can there be big teams in Mexico when the two most powerful teams in Mexico only have 10 and 11 championships where in Europe
there in there 20's and even 30's with Madrid
and we play 2 tournaments a year
THERE ARE ONLY POPULAR TEAMS
America 2 championships in the last 20 years
Chivas 2 Championships in the last 20 years to
Cruz Azul 2 in the last 27 years
any team can win lets face it NO HAY EQUIPOS GRANDES nadamas eqipos populares
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- El ChivaztekaLv 61 decade ago
Saludos Rigo, you should come in here more often man.
I dont think Cruz Azul has been replaced at all in the big 4. If anything, Toluca should be included in the Top 4, but not replaceing Cruz Azul. Unfortunately for Cruz Azul, they have had horrible luck in the finals. 3 finals within 2 years is no easy task my friend. Imagine if they managed the win in Clausura 2008 and Apertura 2008/2009. They could be tied with Chivas as far as titles goes. Cruz Azul, other than Clausura 2009 when C.A.Z. finished last, they have been up near the top.
As far as Pachuca goes. They really have been without a doubt top 3 teams in the 2000s. Winning 3 CONCACAF Champions Cups and their 5 titles fairly recently (within the past 11 years) is a great feat, and lets not forget the Copa Sudamericana. Pumas won 3 of their titles within the past 6 years as well. Like you said, Toluca won 6 of their titles in the short tournaments. If anything, Chivas and America havent lived up to expectations. Both clubs only have 3 titles between them in the past decade.
However, when it comes to having a "Big Club" you take history into consideration. History tells us that Chivas, America, and Cruz Azul are the Big 3 because of the amount of fans each team possess. The difference comes with the promotoras. No team in the FMF is more marketable than these 3, so they will be the most popular for a while. Toluca has surely picked up its fair share of fans in the past decade and why not? 6 titles in recent history is amazing. Pumas still has a bigger following but i wouldnt be surprised if Toluca became a very marketable team internationally in the near future like Chivas, America, and Cruz Azul are. Chivas is due for another title, same with the Wilas, and Cruz Azul. I dont think there is a club in the FMF that has more urgency to win a title than Cruz Azul because of the fans, and because of the Club itself.Source(s): @Rigo, i see where your coming from. But toluca is one of the most consistent teams as of late. It seems like theyre i every liguilla as one of the top seeds. Santos has become a perennial liguilla team. Unfortunately maybe the torneos cortos have allowed "smaller" teams to compete with the big teams. The bigger teams have more of a plantel to compete in 2 tournaments at once. Im sure they would have an advantage if the tournament was 1 big one. Toluca won mosts of its tournaments in short tournaments. So i guess that could tarnish their credibility a bit, as opposed to Chivas, America, And Cruz azul who won most of theirs in regular torneos. Consistency ties into a teams marketability though..seems like everything in Mexican Futbol does :/
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Cruz Azul is one of the "Big four",why?
well we may have lost alot of finals,but if you imagine if we could have won them all we would have like 12 (pachuca final that we lost) and you would not be asking this.
just like Chivas,America we marked a whole Decade of PURE greatness.
Look we marked the 70's
Chivas marked the 60's
and America marked 80's.
Pumas has been one of the best teams for the past 10 years.
Toluca isn't known for doing anything spectacular i mean sure they got 9 championships and we got 8
but still Cruz Azul is known by more people in Mexico.Just look at our history and compare it to thier history.we have had more good plaers than them,we have a huge number of fans spread out all over Mexico.
I hope you understand why Cruz Azul will always be in the Big Four of Mexico.
thats the order of it.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Pachuca and Toluca are bigger teams then mierda fracazul
- The Great OneLv 41 decade ago
Cruz Azul numero 1
- 1 decade ago
I think they have, by Toluca. consistency is a big deal to me
- Anonymous1 decade ago
you forgot the one we lost to pachuca in 99
and the interliga we lost to america
AZUL HASTA LA MUERTE
AND YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER LIBERTADORES WAS HARD ONLY MEXICAN TEAM TO GO TO THE FINAL ON ARGENTINIAN SOIL
APERTURA 2008 WE GOT ROBBED