Exactly how has "healing energy" been qualitatively and quantitatively measured?
1. Who measured it?
2. What equipment was used, and what were the units of measure?
3. What process was used to measure it?
Good eyes, Rhianna and angrydoc! I read this in Tony's answer in the post below, and I am VERY curious about the answer, too.
Thanks for the effort, but Google searches do not answer the question. I know how to peruse search pages and have done it often for years. I have NEVER seen qualitative or quantitative measures of anything called "healing energy".
Exactly how specific do I need to get in this post? Guess I have to state it in the negative!
I AM NOT ASKING FOR EVIDENCE OF "HEALING EFFECTS". I AM ASKING FOR EVIDENCE OF "HEALING ENERGY".
YOU HAVE TO PROVE "HEALING ENERGY" EXISTS BEFORE YOU CAN PROVE IT CAN AFFECT ANYTHING.
Got it now?
I am NOT going to read any bloody articles on healing effects. Healing obviously happens, so don't WASTE YOUR TIME.
Looks like we have another candidate for "TARD OF THE WEEK"...
- SkepDoc 3.0Lv 61 decade agoFavorite Answer
You won't get an answer from them because the evidence doesn't exist. Tony never backs up his claims, he changes the subject. You are correct to call them on looking for evidence of clinical effects before even proving the concept. This is know as Tooth Fairy Science.
Oh and after all his whining about how his answers are reported, guess who reported my answer to that question??.
Well here it is reposted with the "offensive comments" removed.
Deleted Answer: Let's start with the "if" qi and reiki energy can "heal". There is no evidence for that.
Practitioners of qi jong, Reiki and Therapeutic Touch, as well as a variety of other New Age healer types, and Wiccans claim the existence of a universal life force. They claim it flows through all things and connects everyone to everyone else. They claim that blockages in this flow of energy is the cause of all disease, and that specially trained practitioners can detect and correct these blockages. There is not a shred of evidence for any of this.
They use the term "energy" in a way that is not recognized by scientists, and the form of energy they claim cannot be detected by the most sophisticated and sensitive equipment. Brian Dunning has written a good piece on New Age energy at his Skeptoid blog http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4
Typically with a lot of Alt Med...practitioners started looking for clinical applications before actually proving the thing was real. Bad idea, as this leads to lots of problems with false positives in the typically poorly designed experiments. I am very familiar with Healing Touch (which is a version of Therapeutic Touch) as it was investigation into this that led me to becoming more active as a skeptic. TT was invented in the early 1970's by a mystic and a nurse based on some very dubious ideas. The many "studies" they have done on it since then have shown exactly nothing...no effect, though they won't admit that's what is shown. Most famously in 1998, JAMA published an experiment done by a 9 year old girl as a school science project which showed that they aren't even able to detect the Human Energy Field (as the TT people call it) any better than wild guessing.
The only thing that consistently comes of their "experiments" is that people subjectively claim to "feel better" or be "more relaxed". These are both highly subjective things that can't be controlled for and are subject to various biases in experimental design. So yes....it is a form of magic. But like all magic, it is only real if you believe it is. Your wife is being scammed by a charlatan and wasting her money.. You have pointed out one of the big secrets of sCAM that "they don't want you to know". IT IS REALLY EXPENSIVE. They prey on gullible and desperate people without remorse.
The fame seeking Tony has been recognized as 'Tard of the Week at the Skepchics website
- SammyLv 61 decade ago
You are asking for qualitative measurements as well, aren't you? As for quantitative measurements, we knew the sun provided warmth via the qualitative how many thousands of years before we could measure it.
Who measured it? - I did
What equipment? - My body
Units of measure? - By what units do we measure sensations in our bodies?
Process? - Observations of changes from one moment to the next, correlated to whether the healer was doing something or not.
I have tried a few of these, and to give you three specific examples, where I had no idea of exactly what the treatment would be like - neither the process, nor the sensations. For each, I have given you what I felt, and what results I had - because for it to be healing energy it must have healed something, and there must be a reasonable correlation between the timing of the healing and the attributed effect.
Qi Gong - the man I saw did not tell me what to expect. He rested his hands on me (base of my neck and base of my spine) for about 10 or 15 minutes, and by the end, my feet and hands were pulsing. and very warm If you've ever laid on a massage table, you know that neither the massage table nor the position has that effect. Two sessions in a week, and a very itchy growing skin rash that I had for 18 months was gone, and it never came back. (That is just the most obvious and measurable effect I had.) Cortisone creams, and detox diet changes made no difference whatsoever.
Qi Gong - the woman I saw approached me completely differently to the man above, but again I was not told anything before the treatment. After some preliminary where I held myself in a specific position for about 10 minutes, this woman "flicked" her hands on certain parts of my leg. I felt very strong jolts within my leg. I had three sessions, each the same. She told me she had removed the trauma from my leg. Background - I had a massive, high-energy injury to my leg about 3 months beforehand (nearly died, nearly lost the leg). The break was not healing, and I could not get my knee to start bending again without massive pain after 6 weeks kept straight with a fixator, and out of the fixator for 8 weeks. Within a week, the pain in bending my knee was bearable and I was getting much bigger movements. My next x-rays still showed no bone knitting. However, when I was operated on about 2 weeks later, the bone had started to join. The operation was for a bone graft because the doctors assured me that after 14 weeks and with the extent of the injuries and trauma my bone would not knit without the bone graft.
I have also experienced Shun Shen Tao energy healing, feeling the sensations in my body without being told what to expect. Again I had some amazing results (my surgeon is a world expert in his field), and he estimated my bone would be healed (and I could get the frame taken off my leg) by Xmas this year. I had solid bone growth showing in the xrays months before he expected it, and the frame came off 4 months early in August.
Unlike the skeptics here, I am quite happy to utilise modern medicine and alternative medicine. The alternative medicine practitioners I have known support both, and encourage people to get ALL help needed.
Honestly, the arrogance of people who practice medicine that is only 100 years old using so many drugs that are not properly tested and proven, bagging medicine and practices that are 5000 years old and which they have never tried themselves.Source(s): Me and the healers who have treated me. And the friends and family who have been treated also.
- daveLv 71 decade ago
Most times Tink makes good posts but other times they're completely loony.....
If "Reiki" didn't happen to be the first name of a top Japanese cancer researcher then most of those Google results wouldn't be returned.
Reiki is placebo. You can measure the placebo effect and even quantify it. But not only can you not measure 'reiki energy', you cannot detect, sense or in any other way feel its presence because it doesn't actually exist. This is vastly different from electricity that is easily observed, generated and stored at will.
To pretend that someone can do this with an otherwise undetectable 'energy' and that it has any kind of effect on human tissue is ridiculous.
- TinkLv 71 decade ago
Here is one from Google Scholar "reiki" search that I found interesting
Here is a google scholar search of "reiki perceived effects"
Here is a google scholar search for "reiki cancer"
Here is an ERIC search of "energy healing"
There is actually quite a bit of research done on the topic - especially once you throw in that word "perceived effects". See, stuff like reiki doesn't treat the cancer at all - but they treat the patient, and as anyone in behavioral medicine will tell you; everytime you treat the patient as a whole person, not just a diagnosis, you both win.
Until last month I had full privilege to a university medical library - and a guarantee you, you could find quite a bit of it - part of the university program that I was part of was intergrated with a hospital with a CAM department, so I had to go looking for that stuff pretty regularly.
Edit: are you looking for a standardized unit of measurement, such as an inch, or a milliliter? then no, there is no unit of measurement for a "ki" or anything of the kind....quite frankly, there wasn't one for electricity for a long time either...but those studies contain plenty of quantitative and qualitative measures. If you are more specific, I might be able to direct you to something
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- Anonymous1 decade ago
4. Where does it come from?
5. How do special people manipulate it?
6. How do they know it is only healing energy - how is it known it is not doing harm?
- 1 decade ago
I dunno but this is what I found..
Edit here´s part of it: Cancer Patients’ Responses to Healing Touch. The Cancer Wellness Center sent surveys to 92 participants and received 43 responses. Summaries of participants' responses to HT treatments: Improved relaxation, 98%; Improved sense of control, 75%; Positive change in energy, 87%; Improved interpersonal relationships, 63%; Improved sense of well-being, 92%; Decreased pain, 85%; Decreased side effects of cancer treatments, 77%. (Judy Brannon, “A Patient Satisfaction Survey for Cancer Patients Experiencing Healing Touch at the Cancer Wellness Center. “)
At least read the article.. I no a testimony does not count but I went to a tachyon healer and she got rid off my pain, which was extreme.. Enough 'proof' for me to use it.. The books also have some studies with plants etc, but if you are set on saying it cannot be done, then whatever,, I am helped by it, feel she saved my life with whatever weird things she used.. They use quantum physics, but I am more interested in the fact is does work, then the how,,,
This is also because I had symptoms of a condition science does not have a sufficient explanation for, nor is there a cure.. Alternative healing has helped me get rid of these, even though science says that is impossible..
- Anonymous1 decade ago
This is what Tony I said in one of his recent airings wasn't it. Good question. Good luck trying to get a plausible answer from them. It will be interesting to hear what the alties have to say because this type of energy has never been proven. It's mystical nonsense.
- sharp32548Lv 41 decade ago
You can't measure magic
- angrydocLv 51 decade ago
Excellent question! I'd like to see an answer too.
- 1 decade ago
"Healing energy" is measured in dollars and cents.Source(s): I am a Board Certified M.D.