Anonymous
Anonymous asked in Society & CultureReligion & Spirituality · 1 decade ago

Does John 1:1 prove Trinity?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

In the "original" Greek manuscripts (Did the disciple John speak Greek?), "The Word" is only described as being "ton theos"(divine/a god) and not as being "ho theos" (The Divine/The God). A more faithful and correct translation of this verse would thus read: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine" (If you read the New World Translation of the Bible you will find exactly this wording).

Similarly, in "The New Testament, An American Translation" this verse is honestly presented as

"In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine."

The New Testament, An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

And again in the dictionary of the Bible, under the heading of "God" we read

"Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated 'the word was with the God [=the Father], and the word was a divine being.'"

The Dictionary of the Bible by John McKenzie, Collier Books, p. 317

In yet another Bible we read:

"The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine"

The Holy Bible, Containing the Old and New Testaments, by Dr. James Moffatt

Please also see "The Authentic New Testament" by Hugh J. Schonfield and many others.

If we look at a different verse, 2 Corinthians 4:4, we find the exact same word (ho theos) that was used in John 1:1 to describe God Almighty is now used to describe the devil, however, now the system of translation has been changed:

"the god of this world (the Devil) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not."

According to the system of the previous verse and the English language, the translation of the description of the Devil should also have been written as "The God" with a capital "G." If Paul was inspired to use the exact same words to describe the Devil, then why should we change it? Why is "The God" translated as simply "the god" when referring to the devil, while "divine" is translated as the almighty "God" when referring to "The Word"? Are we now starting to get a glimpse of how the "translation" of the Bible took place?

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  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago
    Favorite Answer

    Well, first...

    You are not exactly correct about 2Co. Why? Because "ho theos" is not normally translated "the God" in the bible (I don't know anywhere that it is, do you?), but rather "God". The capital G indicates the definite article. Now - instead of using "the God" in 2 Co (which is, practically speaking, using the word "the" twice) use just "God". Doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? This is why "the god" appears in 2Co - because the alternative translation is "God" - not "the God" - and "God" does not make sense there.

    Second, John 1:1 has the word "God" in the same verse. By the Greek rules of grammar, the following translations you mention are all very precisely literal word-for-word translations

    "the Word was divine"

    "the Logos was divine"

    However, **because of the preceding mention of "God"**, the "divine" here almost certainly refers specifically to God - that is, not to anything "divine" or "godly", but rather what we might call "Divine" or "Godly" - that is, referring in particular to a characteristic descriptive of the one, true god - not any deity.

    Still, you are correct that John 1 does not prove that Jesus is God. It seems far more likely than any alternative interpretation - but "likely" is not the same as "proof". John 20:26-29 actually *proves* that Jesus is God. That is, as far as I know, the only biblical passage that actually proves this.

    Jim, http://www.bible-reviews.com

  • Beth
    Lv 4
    4 years ago

    Question: Does John 10:30 really prove the Trinity? For a verse to state that there is a trinity it would need to mention the three persons that make a trinity, it would need to show that all three persons are the same power or deity and it would need to show that the three that are deity, are above everyone else since the bible mention other deitys. If there is a trinity of persons we can expect something like the following: "the father {, the spirit) and I are one {God the Creator}". But instead we have: "the father and I are one" 1) Only two persons are mentioned here not three, thus no trinity. 2) John 10:30 makes no mention that they are "one God" 3) John 10:30 would conflict with John 17:11 that "one" means the same deity.

  • 1 decade ago

    Rev 1:1 says God gave Jesus a revelation.

    God and Jesus were two separate entities.

    I ahd a minister point out that there are two differnt forms of god in the greek, genereic and specific. Here is the rub: Rev. 1:1 is the specific referring to Almighty God. John 1:1 referring to the word was the generic version of the title 'god'.

    The answer then is no. John 1:1 does not confirm the trinity doctrine.

  • 1 decade ago

    you are wrong about 2 corinthians 4:4

    the greek word theos is also used to describe a magistrate one who rules

    theos

    theh'-os

    Of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with G3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively a magistrate; by Hebraism very: - X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].

    paul was not saying the devil was divine but was a magistrate of this world.

    so yes jesus was divine because it declares he was with god in the beginning before all things.

    the word was made flesh and lived among us John 1:14

    the father declares on jesus was the only son of god.

    only means him only no other.

    God even declares all should bow the knee to him

    Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

    Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

    Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

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  • 1 decade ago

    John 1:14 states that "So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth" this was Jesus. Also 1 John 4:15 says "Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God" So it's evident that the Trinity has no scriptural basis.

  • ?
    Lv 6
    1 decade ago

    You are right my brother. John 17:3 John 8:32

    Accurate knowledge comes from study of God's word and the truth will set you free from false doctrine. Agape!

  • 1 decade ago

    Jewish rabbis often referred to God, especially in His more personal aspects, in terms of His word. They spoke of God Himself as "the word of God." For example, ancient Hebrew editions of the Old Testament change Exodus 19:17 (Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God) to "Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet the word of God."

    The Greek philosophers saw the logos as the power which puts sense into the world, making the world orderly instead of chaotic. The logos was the power that set the world in perfect order and kept it going in perfect order. They saw the logos as the "Ultimate Reason" that controlled all things.

    So, in this opening, John says to both Jews and Greeks: "For centuries you’ve been talking, thinking, and writing about the Word (the logos). Now I will tell you who He is." John meets both Jews and Greeks where they are at, and explains Jesus in terms they already understood.

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    When you step back and look at John as a whole it does seem his intent to claim Jesus as God. The claim of John that Jesus is fully man but also fully God is huge and unmistakable and mark the beginning middle and end of the book 1-Jesus was the 'let their be' word of God creating the universe, 2 - before Abraham was I AM, 3- jesus is not merely rabbi, or teacher or master but " my Lord and "HO THEOS" my God by Thomas

    It is no surprise that Jesus is almost stoned to death, thrown off a cliff or such by crowds hearing Him and understanding what he says to be claims of being divine. I AM is the special name of God at the burning bush and on closer look, the claim Jesus is God in John is more pervasive than only at the beginning middle and end. Ego Eimi is used 28 times by Jesus describing Himself. All seven of the the huge r I AM claims in John such as I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE use two Greek verbs for I AM one after the other adjacent which was a formula reserved for the God of the burning bush name given to Moses It is certainly odd for Jesus to use the formula of the name of God in the burning bush all over the place with no qualification or explanation had that not been an underlying claim. Understandably Jesus would almost be stoned for such claims and the crowds got His point.

    The term Paraclete is introduced in John by Jesus to describe the Holy Spirit as another Paraclete ( a helper ) on earth and in 1 John 2 the apostle John calls Jesus a Paraclete in heaven. Clearly both describe a person since a real Greek Paraclete was a person who went aside someone to help them.

    In his trial Jesus claims to be the one Daniel spoke of as coming with the clouds and when we lookat Daniel 7 we see the one coming with the clouds is WORSHIPPED by people of all tribes and tounges and nations.... unmistakeably divine.

    In the clearest of terms Jesus is given the titles of God in the new testament. God is said to not give his glory to any one else and yet Jesus is the Lord of Glory! Every knee will bow to God in the Old Testament and to Jesus in the New. It is clear that the New Testament affirms Jesus as fully God and fully man. Only God knows the thoughts of man, yet Jesus knows the thoughts of man. No mere angel rebukes Satan and yet Jesus does. Jesus is the image of God, has the character of God, shows God and the singular is used for the name (singular) Father Son and SPirit as is used for the throne (singular) of God and the lamb.

    Source(s): John 2 "tear down this temple and in three days I will raise it up" human enough to die divine enough to raise himself from the dead
  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    The book of John wasn't even written by John himself but by some people who had known him years after he died. The only one of the four gospels written by the actual apostle is Mark. I am truly suprised at how very little people who like to tell ME I'm going to hell for being an atheist actually know about their own "Holy book." Did you know not one of the apostle Paul's original thirteen letters is still in existence today? Study to show thyself approved.

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    The trinity is a made up doctrine. The verse that supposedly support it have been proven to be inserts that weren't apart of the original text.

    Trinity is false

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