Jehovah's Witnesses, your December 2009 Awake tells us that the "Star" that led the Magi to Jesus was being ?

used by Satan. How do you come up with such stuff and is this how you as an individual feel or only the Organization?

Update:

Hanna J Paul

First off the Magi stopped off in Jerusalem as basically it's on the way. If you come from the east you will have to go arond that big body of water in come in from the north and Bethlaham is on 6 miles south of Jerusalem. Secondly the Magi stopped to ask the priests where this child is, they wish to see him and give him gifts and to worship him. Yep they do sound like Pagans, want to give the Messiah, the king, the savior of the Bible or then Torra. I don't think they were Pagan, I think they were maybe, as many bible put it "wise men" as no one has really identifed the Magi as being nothing but Pagan. I let the bible tell me who they were.

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  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago
    Best Answer

    This is an old line, used by the JWs to try to come up with some proof to their members as to why they must not touch Christmas with a bargepole. There's something significant about the star that speaks of God's wonderful providence, and not Satan's schemes. Modern astronomers have a more insightful view.

    Professor of Astronomy, David Hughes (Sheffield University) has discovered that, three years before Herod's death, there was a rare series of meetings between Jupiter and Saturn in the night sky. The two planets 'came together' (from the point of view of observers on earth) three times that year; in May, September and November. They would have appeared to have been travelling backwards and, on some days, to have actually stopped. (All planets do this, but it's rare for two to do so simultaneously.)

    Prof. Hughes believes this is what the Magi from the east saw, starting in May, when they were in Babylon. They knew to expect another two 'signs' and calculated this triple conjunction, realising they would have time to travel the 500 miles to Jerusalem, where it would appear in September. Off they and their camels trotted. Once in Jerusalem, they had to pay a courtesy call to Herod (if they didn't want to be viewed as spies) because they were in his jurisdiction. Herod got them to agree to say where the new King was, for both Jews and Zoroastrians believed that a Messiah would descend from heaven to start God's kingdom on earth (a source of worry for Herod, whose 'star' was clearly in the descent!) Jupiter was considered by them to be a star and it was 'the royal star'. Coming together with Saturn, this would involve Israel.

    From the Magi's point of view, the star stopped over Jerusalem in September, after which they arrived in the city, conferred with Herod, then they saw the 3rd alignment in November over Nazareth. When we realise from the Bible that the Magi didn't arrive in Jerusalem until after Christ was born, that could make Jesus' birth September. Further, the Bible shows that God simply had to 'speak' to the Magi in a dream for them to thwart Herod’s (and thus, Satan's) evil plans. Herod was a tool of Satan, yes. The Bible had prophecied the weeping in the area because of his wicked murder of the little children. God caused the planets to move as they did. Satan has no control over them! It is the Magi's adoration of the Christ child that offends JWs. They want to cast aspersions on that because they tell their members they must not worship Christ.

    EDIT - The Magi would travel via the Fertile Cresent, which curves north over Israel, Jerusalem being on their way south. That is why they would arrive in Jerusalem first. That was where the second conjunction led them to.

    The God of miracles can so control donkeys getting lost, that Saul is in just the right place at just the right time for God's will to be carried out. But JWs apparently don't believe their God is up to controling the movement of the heavenly bodies to ensure that Jesus is born at just the right place and at just the right time for even pagans to acknowledge the significance of the birth of the King of Kings. The Magi had more spiritual sensitivity than modern-day JWs, so it would appear. At least they knelt before him. You'll never catch a JW doing that. They are so horrified at the thought of God using 'worldly' people who don't belong to his 'organization', they fail to notice how much honour they gave to God by adoring his Son. Or, maybe they DO notice.... yes, that would account for their hostility to the Magi.

  • 4 years ago

    You do know that the Jehovah's Witnesses parade this out every year? Why? Many reasons but just look at their answers here. None are from the Bible, they are completely made up. Satan has no power over the stars. The only power Satan has is deception and lies, he has no power other then that which is given to him by God. He was given the power of the air which is limited to the first heaven or the sky and earth. But absolutely not to the stars. The Jehovah's Witnesses are so far off base on this one it's a shameful act on their part. The star is of God and fulfilled prophecy to the letter. They don't read the Bible, they read what the Watchtower tells them. They interpret the way the Watchtower tells them, they work and worship the Watchtower. They do this in order to degrade Jesus, make him smaller less important. They tell us they follow Jesus, they do not, they follow what ever the Watchtower tells them to follow and this is a prime example. Their belief is not bible based in the least, it based on an ideal of men that can not and will not follow basic Bible principles but follow the author of deception and confusion. Look at Abernathy the Dull's answer he states "God is ruled out" because they believe that the Magi are Pagan and astronomers as if he has no control over the stars. Are the Magi Pagan? Where does it say that? They must have gotten their information about the prophecy from Where? The Bible? Can't, Pagans don't believe in the Bible. But why would they trek so far for something they would not believe in? Why would they have such expensive presents for this King of Prophecy? Why would they have listened to God? Why would they have fell down to their knees and worship Jesus? No, the JW's are just up to their old tricks, they work for Satan and don't even know it. I don't feel a bit sorry for them as they will not even look outside of the Watchtower box. Once again it seems that the majority of the followers of the Watchtower allows *confusion of men* to dictate understanding of Scripture, instead of letting the text speak for itself. There is none, absolutely no scripture that backs up their claim. Satan has no power over the stars. Why do the Jehovah's Witnesses make such an attempt to pervert the word of God? The same reasoning used to show that the star is a evil source, they want to make out that the whole ideal or concept of Christmas is evil, make the birth an evil story. Deception and confusion are the tools of Satan. Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian, they make the claim, they put on the clothes of the wolf in a sheep like appearance and call themselves Christian but they are not. Their religion was brought on by ill conceived ideals of Charles Russell. Whom brought forth this concept with an unbiblical concept that there was no heaven and no hell and that Jesus was not part of a Trinity. He didn't have any ideal how or why, he just didn't believe, he didn't understand the bible. He didn't base his ideal on the Bible but only on his personal view the a Loving God would not do this. So he searches around and not being able to find a religion that fits his ideal or concepts, he invents one and that invention is now known today as the Jehovah's Witnesses. So it's in their very nature to cause confusion within the very fabric of the Christian religion. The very basic concept of the Christian system of belief is the very nature of Jesus Christ as being God in the flesh and they will do anything within their power to dispel that known truth, even by deception or causing confusion. These very same tools as used by Satan, himself.

  • danman
    Lv 6
    1 decade ago

    Mathew 2:1-16 is self explanatory. There is no indication that these magi (holy men) did anything but what God expected of them. There is nothing in the account that would infer that God himself was not involved in the placement of the star over Jesus home. The words are plain easy to understand.

    Once again interpretation based upon need to support one religious doctrine over an other has caused simple language to appear as very difficult to understand.

    In fact if you read vs 16 it clearly indicates that Herod realized the 'the three kings', 'three wise men', 'three magi', 'holy men' had pulled a fast one on him, if this does not represent a good move from God's standpoint what does?

  • 1 decade ago

    Reading Matthew chapter 2, the star had led the astrologers to Jerusalem. The astrologers didn't know where Jesus was, they had to ask. Herod got wind of it, and deceived the astrologers into thinking that he too wanted to pay homage to Jesus.

    Only after speaking to Herod - who wanted Jesus dead - did the star show the astologers exactly where Jesus was:

    "The star they had seen when they were in the east went ahead of them, until it came to a stop above where the young child was." Matthew 2:9

    This was no star that led them to the general vicinity of Jerusalem. No, as the Bible says, it had movement. Instead of initially telling them exactly where Jesus was, the star first led them to Herod, who wanted Jesus dead.

    As for the astrologers, magic and astrology are strictly forbidden in the Scriptures. It is brought out to be from the demons, thus ultimately Satan. According to the NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries:

    Magos

    Word Origin

    of Persian origin, cf. Rab-mag

    Defintion:

    a Magian, i.e. an (Oriental) astrologer, by impl. a magician

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  • 1 decade ago

    Who do Jehovah’s Witnesses say was responsible for the star that led the wise men to Bethlehem? The December 2009 Awake! contains an article on page 11 entitled “What Kind of Star Led the ‘Wise Men’ to Jesus?” The caption under the title reads, “Popular Christmas stories portray the star as a good sign from heaven. Was it really?”

    “The peculiar nature of the star caught the eye of ‘wise men’ from the East, eventually leading them to young Jesus, relates the Bible writer Matthew. (Mt 2:1-12, KJV) Popular Christmas stories portray the star as a good sign from heaven. One reference work refers to the star as part of a ‘divine pre-arrangement whereby…the child Jesus was honored and acknowledged by the Father as his beloved Son.’ Even Christmas carols honor that star. What was this star?

    Some have suggested that it was a natural celestial phenomenon. A number of scholars have proposed that it was a conjunction of planets. However, as The New Bible Dictionary points out, “such a phenomenon could not naturally be referred to as ‘a star,’” Multiple planets passing close to each other would still appear as individual points of light and not as a single star. Some have suggested other celestial phenomena, such as a comet or a supernova. However, none of these phenomena could maneuver through the sky in a way that would lead the men to a specific city and then stop over a specific house.

    Could the star have been a natural event or could it have appeared by divine providence? Consider some facts: The ‘wise men’ were not what we would today call academics; neither were they kings. They were, as most modern English translations read, ‘astrologers.’ They engaged in a practice condemned in the Holy Scriptures. (Deut 18:10-12) Note that only these astrologers were reported to have ‘seen’ the star. If the star had been an actual star, it would have been as visible as a beacon to the public in general. But even King Herod had to ask them about the details of its appearance. This star guided the astrologers first to Jerusalem, to Herod, a mortal enemy of the future Messiah. He intended to kill the child Jesus. Then the star shifted direction and led the astrologers south to Bethlehem where Jesus was, thus placing Jesus’ life in danger.

    These facts give evidence that the star was from an evil source, most likely Satan the Devil. The Bible describes him as using ‘lying signs and portents.’ (2 Thes. 2:9) It should thus not surprise true Christians that Satan could make only astrologers see a star like object and could jockey that ‘star’ to lead them to God’s Son, whom he wanted to destroy. Of course, no one can outmaneuver Jehovah God. Thus, it comes as no surprise that the Devil’s ploy to bring an earthly death to Jesus was thwarted.

    It is noteworthy, however, that God did in fact announce Jesus’ birth through miraculous means. On the very night of Jesus’ birth, an angel appeared to a group of shepherds and announced the birth of a ‘Savior.’ The angel also provided directions so that the shepherds could visit Jesus. Then a multitude of angels appeared and proceeded to praise God. (Luke 2:8-14) God used these angels and not the star to inform people of Jesus’ birth.”

    That is the official J.W. version. However, far from Satan being in control, there is evidence to suggest that it was God who led the men from the east to worship Jesus. Check it out for yourself: http://www.gotquestions.org/star-of-Bethlehem.html

    With regard to the Magi, or wise men, they probably came from Persia, or modern-day Iran, and were familiar with the writings of Daniel, who foretold the events leading up to the birth of the Messiah. Remember that the Magi said (in Matthew 2:2) about the one who has been born king of the Jews, that they saw "his star in the east and have come to worship him." That is, the star of the one born king of the Jews. Interesting background information: http://www.gotquestions.org/three-wise-men.html

    Finally, it is noteworthy that in Matthew 2:8 and 11, the New World Translation uses the word 'obeisance' whereas the King James and New International Version uses the word 'worship'.

  • 1 decade ago

    Question: How do you come up with such stuff and is this how you as an individual feel or only the Organization?

    God does not approve of the works of the world's wise men, magi, magicians, sorcerers, etc. The wise men -- who were misguided by their spiritualism -- were deceived by a demon-inspired star -- shining in the sky -- not directly to Bethlehem, but to Herod, so that Herod could kill the promised seed. God had to intervene to thwart Satan's designs.

    Subject: Magi and Jesus birth.

    It should be noted that the Magi did not encounter Jesus until months or perhaps years after Jesus was born. How is this known?

    Remember when the Magi reach Jesus his family is then forced into Egypt. However Luke's account makes no mention of the Magi or being forced into Egypt.

    Luke 2:7 - Jesus is born (no Magi)

    Luke 2:22 - Jesus is taken to Jerusalem (no Magi and not forced into Egypt)

    Luke 2:39 - Jesus safely reaches Nazareth (no Magi and not forced into Egypt)

    Luke 2:41 - Jesus is taken to Jerusalem every year for the passover

    Matt 2:1 - Magi arrive in Jerusalem

    Matt 2:7 - Herod checks when star appears

    Matt 2:11 - Magi reach Jesus

    Matt 2:14 - Jesus and family forced into Egypt

    Matt 2:16 - Herod kills all children at the age of two and under

    So the Magi have nothing to do with Jesus birth, birthday or Christmas.

    Subject: Pagan Magi

    "Then Herod summoned the wise men to see him privately. He asked them the exact date on which the star had appeared and sent them on to Bethlehem..." ~ NJB

    "Then he called, the king, Herod, to ones divining in secret, and he asked from them to be thorough time he appeared, the star, to them. And he sent them to Beyt Lachem..." ~ Shem Tov

    Ones divining in secret are what the bible calls sorcerers.

    Acts 13:8 "But Elymas the sorcerer {Magi} ..."

    Note: Shem Tov is not a accurate translation but is used to show how Magos are portrayed in the Greek text (Acts 13:6, 8). {The word for "wise men" (magoi) can mean teachers, scientists, physicians, astrologers, seers, interpreters of dreams, or sorcerers.} ~WEB

    The Magi were there to honor the next great king of the known world. ("Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews?") Which is not a uncommon occurrence:

    "Arriving at Jerusalem with a very great caravan--with camels carrying spices, large quantities of gold, and precious stones--she came to Solomon and talked with him about all that she had on her mind."

    Subject: "...and are come to worship him."

    The Greek word proskyneō or in English, worship means:

    "homage shown to men and beings of superior rank"

  • 1 decade ago

    How do we come up with such stuff? Well, may I say, please, that the manner in which you formed that question firmly nudges the reader into a position where he or she can quickly infer that the information in the article is ludicrous in the extreme. If you have the December 9 Awake issue, it reasonably follows that you read the article. If you read the article, it reasonably follows that you considered the logical explanation that is found there. And it would seem that you disagree. Which is fine. But the reasonable explanation for this "stuff" is laid out in the article.

    It is true that some scholars suggest a conjunction of planets. Can a conjunction of planets maneuver in such a way as to lead to a specific city and then a specific house?

    I have read that the magi had to pay a courtesy call to Herod. On what is this based? Are we to believe that God set up this conjunction of planets, led pagans from Babylon to Judah but, in effect, said: "First, guys, make a stop in Jerusalem and do a courtesy call on Herod. While you're there, check and see where my son is supposed to be born. I can't be bothered with telling you that. I got you all the way here – do some footwork yourself. When you're done, head on out to Bethlehem. Don't show up at the manger though. This conjunction I set up will be hanging about over the house where my son lives with his mom. And when you leave the city, don't go back to Herod. Wait, never mind, strike that part. I'll tell you that in a dream. And don't forget to worship my son while you're there. Keep in mind, guys, according to your practice of astrology (that I condemn but it's okay in this instance), Jupiter is considered to be a royal star and, coming together with Saturn, involves my people Israel. Then go on back to Babylon and continue your pagan life."

    Can anyone reasonably explain why the God of Israel would direct pagan star worshipers to come all the way to Bethlehem to worship a Jewish baby? Anybody?

    EDIT: Begging your pardon, please, but Jerusalem is not basically “on the way” to Bethlehem. The magi were coming from the East. Jerusalem is north of Bethlehem, in fact 16 miles due west of the northern part of the Dead Sea. So if by “big body of water,” you are referring to the Dead Sea, and if they went around it on the southern end and headed north, they would come to Bethlehem first. But you are suggesting that their route was around the northern tip of the Salt Sea. Okay, so if Jerusalem and Bethlehem are only six miles apart, why did they go to Jerusalem? Why did the “star” not simply send them to Bethlehem where the child was? If God is leading them to his son by the ‘star’, why then did they have to “stop and ask the priests?”

    The account in Matthew does not say the magi asked the priests. The account says they inquired as to the one born king of the Jews. They do not mention anything about “savior” or “Messiah.” Inserting such terms is disingenuous. They are seeking a king – not a savior and not an anointed one (which is what Messiah means). It is King Herod who inquires of the priests and it is King Herod who sends the magi to Bethlehem – and even then he tells them to make a search. They still do not know exactly where to go. Now the ‘star’ appears again and stops over the house of Mary and her family. How reasonable is it to suggest that all this back and forth was necessary if indeed God was sending them to his son? And keep in mind, they did not even arrive at his birth. Considering the careful calculations of Herod, Jesus could have been as much as two years old by the time the magi arrived at the house.

    Begging your pardon again, please, but they most assuredly have been identified as pagans. Are you saying that they worshiped the God of Israel? Because if they did not, then they are pagans. The Bible does tell you who they were. The Greek term for them is magi. This is undisputed. Many call them wise men and many call them kings. The Bible calls them magi. Various reference works, such as The Oxford Bible Dictionary, Justin Martyr, Origen and Tertullian in “The Ante-Nicene Fathers”, the New Funk & Wagnall’s Encyclopedia, Vol 22, 1952, and the Imperial Bible Dictionary, flesh out the meaning of magi using terms that include, but are not limited to, astrologers, stargazers, practicers of magic, interpreters of dreams.

    Again, why would magi, pagan men who practiced what God roundly condemns, come to Judah to worship a Jewish baby?

    Hannah J Paul

  • 1 decade ago

    Wow, Just to start off we do have to remember that the Jehovah's Witnesses do not like anyone who worships Jesus. Secondly, when has the Jehovah's witnesses ever followed sound bible teachings? With this is mind lets take a closer look at their non biblical claims.

    They seem to think the the Magi were Pagan.

    They seem to think that this star led them to Jerusalem first then to Bethlehem.

    They propose that the star is the evil work of Satan.

    Lets explore what the bible really says!

    Matthew 2:

    1After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem 2and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."

    1. Time period - AFTER Jesus was born, during the time of King Herod.

    2. The Magi, from the east. Came to Jerusalem and asked "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? Whom did they ask this from? Not King Herod as he heard it later and assembled together all the people's chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Christ was to be born.

    Does the scripture tell us that the followed the star to Jerusalem? No it does not, all it says is that they saw his star in the east and they have come to worship him.

    Are these Magi Pagans? Why would a Pagan come to Worship Jesus? They would not, so are the Magi Pagan, clearly they are not Pagan.

    Now when King Herod heard of this he assembled the chief priests and teachers of the law and asked them where this Christ was to be born. They told him of what the prophet has written: 6" 'But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,

    are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;

    for out of you will come a ruler

    who will be the shepherd of my people Israel

    Now King Herod is mad, disturbed, upset. What does he do. He summons the Magi in secret and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. 8He sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and make a careful search for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him."

    Are they working for King Herod at this time or have they been lied to? Is King Herod being deceptive here? Yes and Yes.

    So back to this Star, where did the Magi see the star. FROM the east or IN the east? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him." Easy answer, they saw it in the east. Did they follow it, the bible is silent on that matter. If the saw it from the east I would say that they followed it and the JW's would have a valid point, but it say they saw his star "in the east" so I don't think they followed it. I think they followed the words of the prophet, knowing the Christ, King was going to be born in Bethlehem. But they traveled long and they saw the star after Jesus had been born. So they stop in Jerusalem. Why would they stop in Jerusalem? Maybe because the temple and the priests and they could ask and find out where this Christ is. Thinking that these people should know as they are from the same religion, they worship the same God. But anyhow, King Herod, by deception, has instructed them to find this Christ and then come back to him and let him know so that he too may worship him. What would the Magi think about this. They thought this is what they came for and this is what the King wants, to worship the Christ. That's cool, everything is good.

    They embark to Bethlehem and the star they had seen in the east ( not from the east) went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. 11On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh. 12And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.

    Back to the star again, the saw it in the east but not after until they left to find Jesus in Bethlehem. There was not a switch of Direction. Not at all, the star became present again and went ahead of them and stopped over the place where the child was. I suspect it was not the star that stopped but the light beam coming from the star. Then what did the Magi do? They bowed down and worshiped Jesus and then gave him his presents.

    Did they go back to King Herod? No they were warned in a dream not to go back to Herod. So they left, using a different route. Why do you think they used a different route? I don't think they wanted this Christ Killed and they thought that King Herod may have his soldiers nearby in wait.

    So is the star the work of Satan, there is absolutely no indication that the star led anyone other then the Magi to Jesus. Were the Magi, Pagan or bad people. No indication that they were Pagan or bad people, in fact quit the opposite. They were good people.

    Edit--

    The meaning they the JW's use in the case of "astrologers", is not the meaning set forth in Scripture. To assume that the passage that the JW's use condemnns the practice of Astrology itself is a misinterpretation of the true meaning of this biblical prophesy. If this is taken to "condemn" Astrology then, by the same misguided logic, one would have to say that it also condemns "merchants".

    The context is clear in Matthew 2: The Magi are good people and the JW's want to condem them. Whom else wishes to do that? That's who's behind the JW misrepresentation of the Scriptures.

    Numbers 24:17 "I see him, but not now;

    I behold him, but not near.

    A star will come out of Jacob;

    a scepter will rise out of Israel.

    He will crush the foreheads of Moab,

    the skulls of all the sons of Sheth.

    Unless Satan wrote the bible, the Bible tells us the the Star is fortold and form God.

  • Rather, where do people get "such stuff" that God would use idol-worshipping astrologers who practiced a form of worship that God Himself condemned in the Bible, to guide anyone to anything???

    Not to mention that the result of the matter was the murder of innocent children.

    Source(s): The HOLY Bible
  • 1 decade ago

    I didn't know satan was a co-creator of the universe. I guess Satan was allowed to make stars etc. according to JWs.

  • 1 decade ago

    By leading the pagan magi, (wise men), to Jerusalem, to talk to Herod, instead of to Bethlehem, to see Jesus, the Star of Bethlehem instigated the murder of all the baby and toddler boys up to age 2 in Bethlehem. It could have led them to Jesus first, because it eventually did.

    From Matthew chapter 2: http://kingjbible.com/matthew/2.htm

    Matthew 2:11 clearly shows that by the time the magi showed up, Jesus was a small child and lived in a house.

    Matthew 2:7,16 clearly show that Herod carefully determined that Jesus was now 2 years old.

    Matthew 2:13,16 also clearly show that the magi's divination by astrology - condemned by God, (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) - made it necessary for an angel to send Jesus' family into hiding, and brought violent death to baby and toddling boys of Bethlehem!

    By comparison, Luke 2:15,16 shows that to the shepherd Jehovah chose to attend Jesus birth, he gave timely notice so that they could arrive while he was still in the manger. There was no side-trip to Jerusalem, no trouble find Jesus, and no one slaughtered!

    Consider all the babies and toddlers whose murders were instigated by that star, along with their heart-broken families. Those were potential playmates, peers, and disciples of Jesus, who died in his place when Herod had them killed. Did one of those little boys live near Jesus, and play together with him? Would one of them have followed Jesus and become an apostle?

    Someone wanted Jesus - the very Son of God - to die much too soon - and missed his target. Was it God, who then sent the angel to warn Joseph to flee to Egypt, who wanted that?

    The motive that instigated the Star itself was definitely religious, for either God or Satan was behind it. The murders weren't committed by priests, but then neither was the murder of Jesus as an adult, and that was the ultimate sacrifice. Jesus' sacrifice in adulthood was instigated by religious leaders, but the attempted murder of Jesus in childhood was instigated through the Star of Bethlehem.

    Let's call a spade a spade; it was child sacrifice, committed by Roman authorities who were eventually involved in sacrificing Jesus, and instigated by spiritual forces, as was Jesus' sacrifice. Who but an enemy of God would mock His wondrous provision of salvation with child sacrifice? To whom was this child sacrifice offered?

    Why then, do Nativity scenes drag these unwitting pagans into a time and place they never visited, to invade Jesus' nativity?

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