Anonymous
Anonymous asked in Politics & GovernmentMilitary · 1 decade ago

Russia, Ukraine and NATO.?

Im somewhat confused with the whole dilemma between Russia and Ukraine over NATO? Is it that Russia does not want Ukraine to join NATO, if not, why?

Thanks!

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  • 1 decade ago
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    Since the collapse of the former Soviet Union and the dissolving of the Warsaw Pact, NATO has granted membership to many of those former Warsaw Pact countries and former Soviet republics. As a result, NATO forces got closer and closer to Russia, which made Russia felt threatened.

    Last year, Russian forces used a BS excuse to invade a country that was on the verge of being granted full NATO membership. The country was Georgia, which used to be part of the Soviet Union. Russia felt that having NATO forces in a country that is very close to the only warm water ports Russian has was the last straw. The other country that's in the same situation is Ukraine.

    Ukraine is on the list as being a future member of NATO. There's an area in Ukraine called Crimea where Russia is leasing a large port there for their Black Sea fleet. Ukraine has already told Russia they're not renewing the lease Russia has for the port in 2017, which would put Russia in a huge naval bind. As a result, there's a very real possibility that Russia will again find some BS excuse to invade Ukraine/Crimea to get the territory Russia needs for a warm water port.

    Here's more info:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_...

    That's it in a nutshell. Hoped I helped.

    GARISH: NATO is aggressive?! NATO's "aggressiveness" is the result of Soviet expansion immediately after WW II. The USSR took over countries that were weakened by years of occupation by Nazi Germany and the fighting that ensued as a result. Stalin took advantage of that and the generosity of the Allies to build the Iron Curtain, where the USSR held sway for decades.

    Russia isn't much different. With the collapse of the USSR and Russia being a shadow of their former self, the Old Timers have been griping about going back to the good old days of Soviet aggression. A good example would be the conflict in the former Yugoslavia.

    Since the Serbs and Russian are old buddies, Russia backed the Serbs when the US and NATO told them to stop atrocities against non-Serbs. When the Serb Army finally pulled out of Kosovo, who was occupying the only major airport in the country? Why, it was the Russians, who were there upon invite by the Serb Army.

    The Russians wouldn't give up the airport, so NATO forces cut off their water, electricity, and wouldn't allow any flights to take off or land at the airport. After two weeks, Russia finally gave up the airport, but demanded to be part of KFOR, which NATO allowed.

    I know because I did missions with them in Kosovo. And I know how they work (or don't work), and all the wonderful things that Russian soldiers do while deployed (use your imagination).

    As far as Georgia goes, if Russia quit carrying out atrocities in the region against their own people (yes, I'm refering to Chechnya), they wouldn't have to worry about who the people in Georgia are supporting.

    And as a matter of fact, Russian troops, to this day, have been occupying parts of Georgia since their invasion last year. Russia just tries to dismiss it by making up to countries out of thin air (Abkhazia and South Ossetia) and occupying it, saying they're helping to defend against atrocities by the Georgian military.

    And then they try to use Kosovo as an example of what they're doing is acceptable.

    Your BS may work with people who don't know any better, but for people like myself who do know what's really going on, don't try and blow smoke up my butt.

    Dasvidaniya!

    ADDED Pt II: It would seem I've struck a nerve...

    First and foremost: Anytime you start refering to people as "good" or "evil", or other adjectives as "bloodthirsty", it's a sign that you're already lost an arguement. Instead of listing actual facts, you're attempting to villianize me and other Americans.

    Not very smart or original.

    And posting pics or video doesn't support it either since both can be manipulated.

    Yes, Russia was invited to take part in KFOR, but under NATO control. Russia wouldn't accept that and tried to bully their way into Kosovo under threat of violence and take over their own region, but their actions failed. It was pretty well known that Russia would just partition part of Kosovo for the Serbs (their historic allies) and make it an autonomous region. NATO wouldn't allow it, so a stand-off ensued. Russia got their own command, but not their own areas as a result.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/671495.stm

    I couldn't understand the goobly-**** you said about the Pristina airport and the Russian forces occpying it, but I'm sure it was something counter to what I said.

    The same applies to your comments about the Chechen Wars.

    Of course, you know there's a difference between the First and Second Chechen Wars. The First Chechen war ended with Russian troops being forced from the area with their tails between their legs, but not before they killed an estimated 100,000 civilians, wounded twice that, and displaced an estimated half a million people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War

    The dominant Russian strategy was to use heavy artillery and air strikes throughout the campaign, leading some Western and Chechen sources to call the air strikes deliberate terror bombing on the part of Russia.

    The Russian soldiers often prevented civilians from evacuating from areas of imminent danger and prevented humanitarian organizations from assisting civilians in need. It was widely alleged that Russian troops, especially those belonging to the MVD, committed numerous and in part systematic acts of torture and summary executions on rebel sympathizers. Humanitarian and aid groups chronicled persistent patterns of Russian soldiers killing, raping and looting civilians at random, often in disregard of their nationality.

    I don't support everything that NATO and/or the US does, and I'm sure they've made their share of bad choices and ideas, but there's no way on earth that the US or NATO would ever purposely do anything like that.

    I was against the US invasion of Iraq. Yes, there were civilian casualties as a result of the military action there, but they were never specificially targeted or used as human shields like the Russians did in Chechnya. Yes, the Muslim guerrillas did the same thing, but Russia should have been above such actions.

    The next time you want to show pictures and videos, why not show Grozny after the First Chechen War. It looked like cities in Germany looked like after WW II.

    Like I said, I saw Russian forces at work personally, and even though I was working with what was supposed to be top-of-the-line Russian Airborne soldiers, they were nothing more than drug addicts and drunkards who had prostitutes brought to their check-points every night.

    But what do you expect from a country that still has to make military service mandatory, when the US has volunteers?

    Also, quit sending me personal nasty-grams before I sic the Yahoo police on you. It's bad enough to deal with a sore looser, but I don't want to hear you whine about it.

    ADDED Pt III: Blah, blah, blah...

    I've done tactical operations with Russian troops. I speak from personal experience. You're just regurgitating what the fine folks at Komsomolskaya Pravda and the other Russian nationalists online tell you.

    How is it that former Warsaw Pact nations and former Soviet states are so eager to be part of NATO and Western economies? How is it that the term "Soviet" automatically conjures images of atrocities and terror?

    But what else would you expect from a country who's leader killed more of his own people than any foreign country could (Stalin)?

    I've been to the former East Germany and was flabbergasted at how terrible the country looked and how bad the infastructure was, right next to one of the most prosperous European countries in the world. And that was 10 years after German unification.

    You can rant on here as much as you want, but millions of people have decided which direction they want to go, and for the vast majority of them, they have decided to ally themselves with the West and the US instead of the oppressive bullies of the former Soviet Union.

    It's not perfect, but it's much better than life in Russia.

    Remember...

    "Идеи более мощны чем оружие. Мы не позволили бы нашим врагам иметь оружие, почему должен мы позволять им иметь идеи."

    Джозеф Сталин

    Source(s): Ex-US Army Cav Scout NCO & BA in Political Science
  • 1 decade ago

    Russia and Ukraine have had a strained relationship over the last few. years. In 2006 Russia turned off the gas supply to Ukraine during one the coldest winters for years. I cant remember what reason was given for this (it may have been a simple as an unpaid bill) but at least it showed that Russia did not see Ukraine as a threat. Russia might not like Ukraine to join NATO simply for the reason that it will be more difficult for them to treat a country in NATO the same way. There always is the (admittedly small) possibility that NATO might take action against them.

  • 1 decade ago

    When Bush was in office, he proposed that Ukraine join NATO and host a missile defense program. Obviously, Russia doesn't want the Ukraine to have anything to do with nukes next door... Plus, it lends itself to forcing Russia to be transparent about their nuclear activity. FAT CHANCE :o).

    Also, the port in Crimea is a big deal. The post above me is very accurate.

    Source(s): BA in Russian Language and Area Studies BA Social Work, LCSW (social work has nothing to do with this, obviously)
  • 1 decade ago

    Russia doesn't like the idea of NATO on its borders and Ukraine is trying to join NATO. Ukraine is on the Russian border and the Russians feel a NATO country on their borders is a threat to their security. That's wy i think Russia might invade Ukraine next because Ukraine is trying to join NATO.

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  • Keeper
    Lv 4
    1 decade ago

    Heart, killing hundreds of civilians and Russian peackeepers is not the BS excuse.

    Keep that in mind bloodthirsty American.

    And still Russia was generous enough not to occupy this US satellite and behave like US trained bloodthirsty Georgian.

    NATO is quite an agressive military organization and any peace treaty with it is not worth the paper it is written on.

    EDIT:

    Please heart.

    Russia enetered the Kosovo not because of the invitaion of Serbs. Russia did this 11 June 1999 after UN resolution 1244 (10 June

    1999) . Did you hear about the UN Resolution authorizing use of KFOR? Or you "partly" deaf?

    And you of course blind to the part of the brutalities from the Albanians like cutting Serbs to organs.

    I understand you, pindos, are pissed because when international forces were allowed to enter Russia took the airport, before US

    forces reached it, despite the fact that Russian forces were faraway from it.

    As about Chechnya actually I know Russia probably the only one country in the history and earth which allowed human rights watch

    organization and opposing journalist to work there. More than that Chechen were allowed to sue Russian goverment in the European

    Court for human rights abuse despite the fact that there was the real war with the real terrorists, despite the fact that a lot of

    "human rights activists" there were actually supported terrorists.

    Did any other country allowed this so?

    Let's see what US can offer. Million dead in Iraq, killed journalists, just because, Guantanamo with people tortured without

    accusations etc etc. And what about the photo of tortures in Guantanamo? Ah, they are prohibited, by the country who propagandize

    "freedom of speech".

    Despite all the BS mass US propaganda Russia mostly kicked out the terrorists out of Chechnya.

    Here is the photos of Chechen capital now.

    Can US show the similar photos in the region they conducted the war?

    http://images3.webpark.ru/uploads53/090630/Grozniy...

    http://images3.webpark.ru/uploads53/090630/Grozniy...

    http://images3.webpark.ru/uploads53/090630/Grozniy...

    http://images3.webpark.ru/uploads53/090630/Grozniy...

    Did you mass propaganda media ever mentioned this?

    How different is the REALITY from your mass media propaganda about Chechnya?

    But let's back to Georgia.

    Your mass BS media just "forgot" to tell you the fact of the full scaled Georgian invasion with tanks, jets, heavy artillery,

    missiles and multiple-launch rocket system against civilians, lightly armoured Ossetian militia and Russian peacekeepers.

    So let me show you

    Here is US backed, trained and equipped Georgian entering the Ossetian capital and having fun randomly firing at the civilian

    buildings and civilians.

    No Russian forces.... No backfire... They just making "fun" killing people and recording it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMtXoJDCILE

    Youtube thumbnail

    &feature=related

    Let's compare to the Russian forces entering Georgia:

    http://a13004.rimg.info/icon/1741998000ba9d8227a79...

    http://a13004.rimg.info/icon/1741998000493721ffd35...

    http://a13004.rimg.info/icon/1788903000b0cfdc25a39...

    Georgian protesting in "occupied" Georgia "Stop Russia":

    http://lh3.ggpht.com/cyxymu/SLvkMBivweI/AAAAAAAAAL...

    Now let's go back to Ossetia.

    Does this Ossetian man which Georgian kill on sight had such a chance?

    Probably US teach them well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK7FWPIdHBQ

    Youtube thumbnail

    I see the DIFFERENCE. DO YOU?

    GUYS YOU ARE EVIL!

    YOUR COUNTRY IS AN EXTREMELY EVIL.

    YOUR COUNTRY MUST FALL FOR THE SAKE OF HUMANITY.

    Photo and video is the better proof than your empty statements or statements of USA backed organizations.

    It is more easy to detect the manipulations with photo than manipulations with your empty digits.

    I know how Grozny looked after the war and I know you know,

    because nothing more can be expected in USA.

    So I showed you the reality now. I bet you did not know how it looks now,

    because of your lying media, which is deaf and blind to a lot of facts as you are.

    By the way of course you did not know that this city also was founded and built mostly by Russians.

    Most of the displaced people were Russian and they were not displaced because of the actions of the Russian Army.

    But because of the actions of terrorists, but again as I see you're partly "deaf" and "blind" to the facts and reality you don't want to hear and see.

    And we have seen who are the sore losers now.

    Recent actions in Georgia clearly showed that US trained and equipped army probably lead by US instructors is capable only in destroying civilians in cold blood and is running away when facing the real ARMY, abandoning tanks, weapons and equipment.

    http://s53.radikal.ru/i139/0808/c8/aac70f011fc0.jp...

    How did you describe Russians? drunkards? Georgian president said the same before. But see the reality now how he looked when he heard something in air.

    http://i53.servimg.com/u/f53/11/93/90/12/11geor10....

    The reality is that when about the month ago when US again killed more than 100 civilians in Afghan with one strike and US general asked for the explanations he could not find the sober American, who could explain to him what is going on.

    Did you say Yahoo police? Am I scaring you or you just cannot accept the facts?

    I know you would sic Guantanamo police on me, but guess Yahoo police is everything you can.

    UPD3:

    Oh, now you are telling me about Stalin. Events like 70 years old and your actual knowledge are not even close to reality. But should I discuss now the fate of the black people in US 100 years old, colonial wars, slavery, the fate of Native Americans?

    I have a lot of the different sources of information and I CAN compare them to get the reality.

    Can you? I am operating the facts; you're operating half deaf and blind propaganda. Your media will never show you the facts I show. I live in the freedom, you are in the black box and US is trying to enclose all other people in the similar box.

    Your behavior is the same as your media behavior - partly deaf and blind. You want to see and accept only the events and information you want to see and accept. Yes, millions of people followed Hitler's path and they (yes) were highly developed nation by that time. This does not make them right.

    Mass lying propaganda, military force, exploiting other nations and resources, US sponsored revolutions and interventions, provocations - are the foundations of the US order. Too much similarity with Hitler's order, which turns the people into the brainless machines, don't you think? I see the US is repeating the Hitler's path. And events in Ossetia clearly showed this.

    Just the translation of the last Georgian comment to the youtube video I previously showed with Georgian soldiers randomly shooting civilians and buildings: "This is good. We have to destroy all separatists and Russian pigs. And Ossetians, separatists, slaves of Russia - die bitches...".

    Millions followed similar way throughout the history, it is their choice. I'll follow mine.

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