Can someone please tell the lower-middle class they're better off with NO preventative health care?
Republicans have been trying to tell them this for months, and for some reason, they just don't get it! See, right now many in the lower-middle class can't afford preventative health care, so Congress is trying to pass a bill helping them to afford it. However, as Republicans have pointed out, this is government run health care, and is unlikely to meet the high standards of "no care" that they have now.
So how can we help the Republicans get the message out to the lower middle class?
"No preventative health care is better than government-run preventative health care"
Heck, under that same argument, shouldn't we end food stamps and public schools? Isn't no education also better than poor-quality education?
- Anonymous1 decade agoBest Answer
Once again, Nokilleye graces us with her gloriously self-serving psychobabble consisting of fallacy after fallacy, and unhinged illiteracy when it comes to economics, history, and sociology. Why do you continue posting in Yahoo Answers when you are so embarrassingly ignorant and wreak of contempt? Not one aspect of your "answer" is correct! What purpose do you serve here? You speak from a wealth of myth and hyperbole and are nothing more than a tool of the propaganda - a useful "idiot" - impressionable, tortured and an undeniably unhappy soul.
I come from a country that is mired in the systems you wish to mirror and offer such high praise. Reading your profile is like looking through a telescope into the insane asylum. I don't know if I should pity you, or dismiss you as a "lost soul".
You don't have the slightest idea as to how an economy functions, or as to why profit is necessary on both ends of the transaction. You don't understand the difference between the voluntary inclusion of 3rd parties vs. government mandates. You don't understand the definition of insurance. You don't understand the relationship between the patient and the doctor. You don't even understand the fundamentals of the human animal (some would call this 'The Natural Laws') and how this relates to the economy, incentives, etc!
"Millions of dollars" is relative. Even if you decide to look at this as a profit issue, the health care and health insurance industry are at the bottom of the list in overall profit... less than 4%. That's approximately 4 pennies out of every American dollar, my dear. The United States Federal Government, since the early 20th century, has removed and/or prohibited all forms of "free trade"/competition from the health care and health insurance industry. They are the most regulated and controlled industries we have. Using the word 'private' with health care or health insurance in the same sentence is for all intents a purposes a joke. Bush and Congress touted the words "free market" "pro-free trade", etc. while at the same time engaging in some of the most destructive and anti-free market/free trade actions imaginable, and you, like the media, believe it's laissez-faire, free trade capitalism, etc. This is an analog to a husband saying "I am a pacifist. I hate physical confrontations. I would never strike you." while at the same time beating her to a bloody pulp.
Given that you do not even live in the United States, why are you offering your "opinions" regarding our economy? I read one of your other answers that stated we were living in the streets with slave labor wages. Do you realize how utterly ridiculous you sound? I suppose if watched the BBC, was submerged in a sea of fallacy, class envy, and exhibited hatred for the "individualist" that I would *feel* as you do.
You and Kevin A.R.T. are young, naive, and ignorant and are in desperate need of an education. Neither of you are stupid, per se, but you are hopelessly deluded and are the victims of indoctrination and cascading layers of outright lies and fallacious nonsense.
EDIT: Useful was intended but I neglected to type 'idiot', though perhaps that is not the proper term.
EDIT #2: Again, you prove my point far more effectively than I. I stand by my assertion that you are, indeed, a lost soul and in need of an education into some of the most fundamental basics of economics, natural law, and fiscal matters (which all directly affect social issues). Looking back at several of your answers, you fall prey to the most prevalent economic and historical myths/fallacies, so until you disabuse yourself from those myths/fallacies, there can be no discussion; we are quite literally speaking different languages. While you refer to our differences as two schools of thought, understand that your position/school is steeped in, again myth/fallacy. We might just as well argue about the existence of gravity, or which celestial body is closer: the moon or the sun. You present me with 2+2=5... how do we proceed unless you understand the basics? There can be no "accommodation" of 2+2=4. There can be no evasion of gravity. There can be no avoidance of economic laws.
I speak from a wealth of knowledge that I have achieved from over 40 years of economics, philosophy, and history education/research and I have seen cases such as yours. I studied both "schools of thought", and I actually once believed and "understood" things as you do. I discovered rather quickly that virtually everything I had come to understand or know to be true was utterly and embarrassingly false. What I believed to be true "sounded right" and at face value seemed logical; this is the seduction of your school of thought.
It takes great strength and intellectual honesty for an individual realize they are wrong. Initially, I badly wished to cling to what I thought I knew - what I understood to be true - then the blinders were taken off and I came to terms with it. This is something I doubt you (and people like you) will ever accomplish. It is tantamount to taking a victim of 50 years of brainwashing and expecting him to think otherwise, even when presented with undeniable fact.
If someone were to dig deep enough, they would find the source of your confusion and what drives your philosophy. There was some catalyst that ushered in your current mode of thinking... I have my theories.
Lastly, understand that your "unconditional love for the collective" is the unconditional destruction of the individual and their most basic inalienable natural rights. You are indirectly advocating the destruction of the human being. The individual is reduced to a cog in the mechanism of the collective - under the will of the collective - rather than an individual voice with personal freedom, choice, and the ability to pursue his/her desires, dreams, and goals. The equality that a collective may seek to provide is only achieved by the restraint and servitude of the individual. I can find no better example of equality in misery and mass slavery. The individual is the world's smallest minority, and I find it fascinating that someone who has studied the human animal as you claim to have done, is an advocate of the will of the collective over the individual. This, again, speaks to your fundamental disconnect with reality. On paper, the idea of a Utopian society is dynamite, but the results of the attempts to create such a society is truly all that matters at the end of the day.
If you are older than you seem, and are unwilling to (truly) educate yourself, then all you can hope for is to continue your struggle and live as a miserable human being in a country whose very ideology is the polar opposite of your own, or simply move to a country that offers the programs and economic system you desire and start anew.
- JanetLv 44 years ago
Of all the major industrialized nations, the United States of America is the only one whose citizens do not enjoy the benefits and security of a universal comprehensive health care system. Why is this so? The shortest answer-is contained in the words "class warfare." But the next-to-the-short-answer is, "Because powerful, selfish, private economic and professional interests have so far blocked the enactment of such a program.' The longer answer is, "Because such powerful interests operate in a society and political system in which their money is the overwhelming force that determines who gets nominated and elected; in which those interests own the mass media and therefore control the issues and emphasis on the public agenda in which organized labor has been beaten down; and in which the electorate is constantly indoctrinated with anti-government and 'anti-socialist' propaganda."
- akelleystr22Lv 41 decade ago
Define preventative health care I am a little shaky on it's definition.
Is it that battery of expensive unwarranted tests the medical groups
recommend every time you dare to enter a doctor's office with any complaint what-so-ever. A way to increase the income of Health Care plans.
In this country we already have a out of control massive epidemic of C sections. Babies removed surgically from the mother's womb instead of going naturally through the birth canal. Help-full - I don't think so - United States is low on the infant survival rates. Cost $15,000 for C section plus - $4,000 natural birth with DOCTOR - midwife $1.000.
DO THE MATH
Preventive care - you load the Health Care Plan up front with untold numbers of unwarranted tests $1,000,000s upon $1,000.000 of wasted money.
Preventive care is NOT the term used when a doctor orders tests and/or further investigation into a patient that is presenting some sort genuine complaint.
When any health care plan budget is loaded up front, believe you me the back end of the plan, where hospitalization and other expensive procedures are required, is always inaccurate.
- 1 decade ago
I agree that we should end the food stamp program. Except for the truly poor. I have seen people take advantage of it. As a matter of fact, I know of someone that drives a newer model car, lives in public housing, (he lived there a few years before buying the car) and gets food stamps. I am upset that it is my tax dollars that are being used to help him. I am also sure he is not the only one taking advantage of the system. I am also convinced that if the govt starts running health care, it wont be long until people will be taking advantage in droves.
Also, your statement that the "lower middle class can't afford preventative health care" I feel is nonsense. I did not know that eating healthy, not smoking, not drinking, not using drugs, and exercising cost anyone anything. Canned vegetables or fresh vegetables are some of the most inexpensive items in a store. That statement makes little sense to me.
Could you back your "quote" with a name? Maybe you just imagined it, or maybe Keith Olbermann just told you that is the way we feel.
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- Anonymous1 decade ago
Yeah, the whole thing is really frustrating. They also don't seem to understand that private enterprise death panels are more efficient and better for the economy than government operated death panels, or that private enterprise intrusion on their privacy is so much more pleasant than government intrusion on their privacy. Sometimes I just feel like giving up but then I remind myself how important it is to profit from the misfortune and suffering of others then I just hang in there and that's what keeps me hopeful and optimistic.
P.S. EDIT ADD: Oh, and also, I definitely trust the advice from the 'doctor' a few postings above me because right now, nobody is as trustworthy as the doctor that has made millions of dollars by withholding treatment, spent millions of dollars lobbying government for the last five decades to preserve the private enterprise system. No one is ever more knowledgeable or trustworthy when it comes to economics than the millionaire doctor that profits from the deprivation of others.
Solar, I think in the last sentence of your first paragraph, you meant to say 'useless' as opposed to 'useful'.
(continuation) Solar, I am a natural born lifelong US citizen (yeah, I know, nobody ever believes that but you'll just have to take my word for it). Everyone is entitled to express an opinion and I welcome foreign opinions in the healthcare matter. They have anecdotal experience and knowledge we do not have and it is arrogant not to appreciate that. Assuming you are also American then obviously, you are fully aware that Americans in fact live in the street, and anybody that earns less than the actual material value of that they produce is working for 'slave wages' and that applies to well over half the population. I do not watch the BBC, and my resentment of the 'individualist' is the incidental byproduct of my unconditional love for collective society and cooperative humanity. These are philosphical principles I developed over decades of study and introspection (I forgot to mention that one, I'm not 'young' either), and they are the product of positive assertions about the nature of humanity and physical reality as opposed to negative values such as "class envy" (a subject you introduced curiously enough, not me).
Neither Kevin nor I are in 'need' of an education but I imagine people like us would always be the first to tell you we're not done learning yet, and as for 'indoctrination' and 'fallacy', I probably say that more often than you, so if we call all the vitriol a wash, with what are we left? Two opposing schools of thought in need of reconciliation. I can get there by accommodating principles I fundamentally oppose. Can you?
- 1 decade ago
Can someone please tell the Democrats to stop LYING about what Republicans say?
See, right now around 80% of people go to the doctor at will. Of the remainder, once you factor OUT illegals and people not taking advantage of existing programs for which they are already eligible, statistically no one is left. Also, even "the poor" could manage their health expenses before Democrat-written laws drove-up prices.
Interesting analogies you chose.
> The feds have to ADVERTISE food stamps and lower the bar for eligibility because otherwise they can't find enough participants to justify keeping the program.
> Public school students, on average, are STUPIDER than truant kids their same age.
- 1 decade ago
I don't think Republicans have a problem with providing preventative health care. (Unless, of course, it's sex ed.) They mostly just seem to have a problem paying for it. They go to church - that's all the good they have to do.
"However, as Republicans have pointed out, this is government run health care, and is unlikely to meet the high standards of "no care" that they have now." Hehe.
- Ask me!Lv 41 decade ago
Kevin, I undestand your point but there really is another side to the coin here.
(btw: I do respect your views, even though you are a left-wing-bleeding-heart-liberal...your one of the few here I respect)
The problem with "giving" anything away the only thing you do is create more of it. My wife has been a teacher for almost 30 years. When she started in teaching she had maybe 2-3 kids on free lunch, today she doesn't have (1) single child who doesn't recieve free lunch...in fact there are only 5 in the entire school that pay for their lunch. (She teaches in the inner-city schools...I hate it but it's her calling to the world)
We already have numerous medical programs for children and adults...if you don't have the means there are numerous programs that most people can qualify for that includes preventative care and EVEN dental care for children....all of my wifes kids even get their dental taken care of and the distric pays someone to drive them to the doctor for new glasses.
Kevin, I know you mean well and have a good heart...BUT if we open the door to the government we can never shut it again. YES, we have 15% of the population that needs care...but we can't throw the baby out with the bath water here. I don't what some say, the plans in Europe, Canada and elsewhere are horrible, long lines and one size fits all mantality doesn't work well.
You mentoned "Food Stamps"....Kevin do you know what percentage of food stamps are funnelled through a massive fraud ring that has plaugued the system......(hint it's over 20%)
- Anonymous1 decade ago
maybe you should tell those people to quit the beer, cigs,cable tv and forget the take out pizza they could likely afford insurance. since when did it become my job to care for those who do not care for their own family. i work two jobs, my wife has brain cancer and cannot work, i have 10 year old and low and behold, i pay for my own insurance. the CBO says there is only about 8-10 million who are chronically without insurance, we can offer them a hand up unitl they can get on their feet but we cannot be expected to pay for them their whole life.and yes, as a way of life, we should end food stamps. when you can make more sitting at home with all the entitlements a person can get from the gov, who wants to work? dems are enablers for the lazy of society.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Actually the new health care is simply not fiscally responsible. We currently have 3 major health care programs: S-CHIP, Medicare and Medicaid. Medicaid program, especially, was created to provide coverage for people with low incomes and pre-existing conditions.
If the existing government programs are unable to provide the coverage they were designed for, then the feds need to either figure out a way to fix the problems with those programs, or pull the plug on them, instead of adding a fourth program.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
I haven't heard a single person argue against preventative health care.
I believe the issue is more about the widespread effect on taxes and the rates and availability of insurance that we would like to keep.