Anonymous
Anonymous asked in Arts & HumanitiesHistory · 1 decade ago

If an Arab state had been created in Palestine (other than Jordan) in 1947, what would've had it been named?

Some points for thought -

The eastern part of Palestine became the "Hashemite kingdom of Jordan".

Back in 1947, Jews were also referred as "Palestinians", and the Arabs weren't very fond of that name.

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  • 1 decade ago
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    Hatem made a mistake of transposition, He must have meant to say that 78% of Palestine was carved into JORDAN. Jordan is clearly documented to have been created from the largest portion of Palestine, and it is actually closer to 80% of that land mass. One has only to look at a map to see that Israel is much smaller than Jordan!

    Of the REMAINING land of Palestine, the State of Israel was created from 57% of that land. 57% of the 20 percent of Palestine remaining.

    It is also correct that the many tribes and groups of Arabs living in British Mandate Palestine saw it as an insult to be mistaken for a "Palestinian" as the world primarily called the Jewish people by that term.

    During the pogroms of Eastern Europe (Poland and Russia primarily) there were often placards carred with the epithet "Go back to Palestine!" Is it irony that a little more than a hundred years later that the people of the world who considered the Jews of Europe as foreigners who belonged in their homeland of Palestine, and once the homeland was established in self-rule, now the hate propaganda is that they're foreigners there!

    However what I want to do is note some of the names of the various peoples who LATER ADOPTED a unified Palestinian nationalism but did NOT have one until AFTER israel became a state.

    In British Mandate Palestine the Arab Muslims were referred to primarily as "Bedouin"or preferrably to them as shown by their own writings and documents of the time, by their CLAN OR TRIBAL NAME such as, Quraish tribe. They often did not want to be identified as even being connected to other Arab tribes! Some of the tribal names, they often referred to as their "nation" included Hayawat, Tayaha,Azazma,Jahalin, Tarabeen and the Ijbara. Druze and Dom or Samaritan were also referred to by specific tribal or ethnic name. It was a shock to many of THEM when Arab nationalism claimed the title of Palestinian for

    their collective name of the Syrian, Trans-Jordanian (ruled by the Hashemites of the Quraish tribe), Egyptian and Lebanese Arabs living in neighboring Palestinian territories. That was because at that time, Most of the world referred to the Jews alone as the Palestinians...for centuries in fact!

    Yet the Passports of Christian, Muslim, Jew, Druze etc..living in British Mandate Palestine..all had them as Palestinians.

    Palestine was a region, not a collective national identity.

    It later BECAME one, and since they have become a nation, it is my sincere hope that they will one day seek to work toward nation building with greater effort than they do to neighboring nation destruction. Israel is a legitimate country, formed through legal means and has as much right to exist in peace as any other country of the world.

    edit: Hatem hasn't "proven" any of his assertions at all. Space does not allow me to address each of those convolutions and misrepresentations of what I wrote.

    I respectfully suggest that anyone who wishes to do so can look to UN archives available online to see how much of a percentage of Palestine that the State of Israel was created.

    Bizarre that Hatem wishes to insist that Jordan was not created out of Palestine..and rather than be honest and declare that Israel was created out of the 20 percent of Palestine left AFTER Jordan was created as an Arab Muslim country.

    the question asks if an arab state OTHER than Jordan had been created in Palestine...recognizing that Jordan was created in Palestine. I included many other group/nation/peoples names besides Bedouin and CLEARLY said that PREFERABLY they wanted their own tribal nations names. There were many different groups of people living in the region known as British Mandate Palestine. Syria was formed from that region, too.

    Yet, it's only the Jews that people like Hatem wish to deny the basic right afforded them under the Declaration of Human Rights to establish self-rule in their homeland.

    There is NO other homeland for the covenant nation people Israel than the land of Israel.

    I noted that since Israel formed there was a collective nationalism developed, but the question asked what the NAME of another Arab state would have been at that TIME. The groups I gave specific names to include some of those groups that had even petitioned to be so included for independent self-rule.

    UN archives online will show you this.

    These are copied from documents of the United Nations :

    On September 16th, 1922 the Council, in accordance with this article, approved a proposal by the mandatory Power to the effect that the provisions of the Mandate respecting the Jewish national home and the Holy Places should not be applied to Transjordan.

    The year before in 1921, Jewish settlement had been forbidden in the part of Palestine called Transjordan.

    you see, Transjordan ( Jordan ) was the lion's share of Palestine and to deny this and say Israel was created from 78 percent of Palestine is simply a lie

    Jews had been trying unsuccessfully since before the United States declared independence to create a homeland and self-rule! To say that a bigoted notion imposed on Jews created a sense of a false homeland is one of the most bizarre lies I've ever seen about Jews ( just when I think I've seen everything, something new comes along!). The lie above that tried to twist my answer showing that the world knows that Israel is the original and only homeland of the Jewish people into something very different only shows the desperation of history revisionism to support an agenda to delegitimize the existence of the State of Israel.

    To deny that the homeland of the Jews is Israel one would also have to ignore 3000 years of archaeological artifact and human history. Every nation has a homeland, a beginning, and for the Jewish people, Israel IS that land and despite massive efforts over the millenia to remove the presence of the Jews from our homeland, those efforts have failed.

    "Under the British Mandate, historical Palestine was divided into two parts, Transjordan and Cisjordan" < from UN archive search page. link below

    So, Cisjordan could have ALSO been a name chosen.

    British Mandate Palestine, most definitely included the lands later given to be ruled by the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan that was forbidden in 1921 to Jewish settlement. Transjordan as it was known by in 1922, was declared to be exempt from the protection of holy places to other religions. When Jordan had control of Jerusalem, Jews and Christians were forbidden to the holy places Israel has laws to protect for all to have access to their religious sites.

    See the UN documents at the link here :http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/fd807e4...

    This, copy pasted from UN archives online:

    The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews."

    from another article:

    "Egyptian leader Gamal Abdul Nassar encouraged Egyptians and Palestinians within the Gaza Strip to attack Israeli civilians and destroy their property. He also armed a group of guerrilla fighters, the fedayeen (self – sacrifices) who, between 1950 and 1956 killed more than 360 Israelis. The Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO) was formed in 1964 under the leadership of Ahamad Shuqairir, who was a client of Nassar. This organization was established by Nassar in attempt to control the fedayeen groups, whom Nassar feared would drag Egypt into another war with Israel.

    The PLO was an umbrella organization, consisting of the Palestinian Liberation Army (PLA) and later the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) established in the 1960s and Fatah which was established in the late 1950s. King Hussein of Jordan strongly opposed the creation of the PLO, believing that the organization posed a major threat to Jordan since most of its population was Palestinian. In 1968, the Palestine National Charter was established, calling for the destruction of Israel"

    I own several books on Judaism, and containing Jewish history and stories (two are children's books) that belonged to my maternal Grandmother that were printed in the years 1918-1942 in British Mandate Palestine. In every one of those books, the Jews alone are referred to as Palestinians and the Arab peoples are referred to by the name of their tribe or kingdom or nation ( I mentioned the individual names above in my original answer and in a few instances, yes Bedouin is used )

    If another state had been created at that time it would have most likely reflected the group who had the most political influence and power.

    There is NOW a collective nationalism for them and it is my hope that one day they will use it for nation building rather than neighboring country destruction

    Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist who now speaks out for honesty and peaceful resolution “Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?” “We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”. “When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”

    Source(s): http://www.un.org/en/search/ > search for yourself the terms Transjordan, Cisjordan and British Mandate Palestine here is a search page using some of the nation names I mentioned above quite revealing that some UN documents themselves call the native Arabs of British Mandate Palestine collectively "Bedouin" http://search.un.org/search?as_q=&as_epq=&as_oq=Ha... as far as "reputable" references, Wikipedia that can be altered by anyone, including you or me, isn't one. That's why my son's Middle School doesn't even allow it as a stand alone reference for any report on any subject matter. daccess-ods.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N78/164/86/PDF/N7816486.pdf?OpenElement unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/39be9733eba0c4ef802564b200584c58?OpenDocument < READ THIS! and see who is being honest with history http://domino.un.org/ < contains documents regarding British Mandate Palestine and the formation of the several countries and territories out of it, including Syria, Lebanon, Israel ...and Gaza and the West Bank. Population figures, social and economic data , etc are also given here. They give a very different picture than that of the propagandists.
  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    Sorry to burst your bubble, it would have been called "Palestine". Actually after Israel's occupation of 78% of Palestine in 1948, a Palestinian government was established in Gaza and was named "All-Palestine Government". That government lasted until 1959, when it was annulled by Egyptian president Nasir.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Palestine_Governm...

    Edit:

    Mam_pajama: Thanks for attempting to clarify my answer. However, I would like to confirm that I did mean Palestine which was addressed in the UN partition plan of 1947, of which Israel occupied 78%, even though the plan granted the Jewish state only 55%. There was no Jordan in than formula.

    On other points:

    - I would appreciate for my own education if you could provide a credible reference showing that Palestinian Arabs did not like to be called Palestinians.

    - Palestinian nationalism started as early as the second half of the 19th Century, when many provinces under Ottoman rule started such movements as a reaction to Turkish domination of the Ottoman Empire. With the fall of the Ottoman Empire after WWI, the Palestinian nationalist movement only got stronger.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_nationali...

    - You refer to Palestinians as Bedouins. If you are familiar with that term, it is used for nomadic people that depend on raising live stock for living and they move around where water and grass is. However, 93% of the Palestinians were not Bedouin as they lived in more than 20 cities and 600 villages. Any one familiar with the term, would not call such people Bedouin.

    - I am sorry that European racists were calling the native Jews of Europe as foreigners. This is common when people try to demonize a group of people, as it makes easier to persecute such people when they are demonized. It is this demonization that made a group of Jews to start Jewish nationalism for people who belong to one religion, but to many nations. So what the Zionists did was exactly what the European racists wanted: They removed the Jews from their native countries and sent them to Palestine. However, Zionists are doing the same to the Palestinians, as the racist Europeans did to the Jews. Just go to the Israel section and read some of the answers and questions there.

    - FINALLY, Boomerang’s question was very clear. He asked what “If an Arab state had been created in Palestine (other than Jordan) in 1947, what would've had it been named?”. I believe I have proven that it would have been called PALESTINE.

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