Jesus praying to the Father--?
Something just struck me. If I'm understanding the Trinity correctly:
When Jesus is praying, is it like God the Son is praying to God the Father? In trinitarian terms, Jesus the Son looked like he was a distinct entity from the Father when he was praying. And yet he is co equal and co eternal with the Father and he is God, so isn't that a fancy way of saying a part/all of God prayed to another part/all of God?
Ok, I'm confusing myself. In simpler wording, Jesus is God the Son, right? God the Son and God the Father are persons in the Godhead separate and distinct from each other, yet both wholly God. So when The Son prays to the Father it doesn't mean that 1/3 of God is praying to 1/3 of God but means that 3/3 of God is praying to 3/3 of God because God is indivisible. Therefore... God was praying to God?
I'm pretty sure my understanding of this is pretty skewed, so can someone clarify this for me? Is Jesus at the time of prayer God the Son and therefore fully God?
Emma, that doesn't answer my question. Jesus the Son is also God the Son, and he is distinct from the Father, right?
But God the Son is also 100% God just like God the Father, so it's like 100% God praying to 100% God. They may be distinct, but they are both also fully God, so either they're two Gods or God is praying to Himself...? That's my question.
seekfind: That also doesn't exactly answer it, since God is fully human and fully divine according to the Trinity, so saying that he left his divinity behind is like saying Jesus the Son of God is only an ordinary man without any divinity when he was on earth. Unless I'm interpreting your answer wrongly, of course.
since Jesus was* fully human....
I'm sorry, Peace, but I don't believe in the Islamic faith. Thanks for taking the time to answer though :D
Maria S: That's the Oneness explanation :O
EDRJR: I'm sorry, but that's also a oneness explanation... I'm looking for a Trinitarian one.
So am I to understand that the trinitarian stance on this is the same as oneness, that Jesus (as a human/ Son of Man) was praying to God the Father instead of as God the Son?
Yes, I've read through the explanations of this verse from oneness people, and it's the same concept. Read the first "additional detail" I wrote. That was the dilemma I ran into, that God the Son was praying to God the Father.
This is how I understand the Trinity: There are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead: the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Father, and the Holy Spirit is neither. The Father is fully God, the Son is fully God, and the Holy Spirit is also fully God, and yet they are only One God. If any of them is taken away from the Godhead, there would be no God.
What I understand your answer as is that Jesus was praying to God the Father as the Son of Man (The son of a human) and not God the Son. I say it's the oneness explanation merely because they also say that during those prayers Jesus (God) prayed to God as a man (son of man) and not as God.
-c- And in fact, I was expecting a very different answer from Trinitarians.
(Btw, before you jump into conclusions, I'm a Trinitarian.)
Beyond that, I don't really see the confusion. Since the Trinity doctrine says that the Father and the Son are distinct from one another, the Son could pray to the Father.
I was thinking the same thing, until I started thinking more and I ran into this: God the Son was co-equal and co-eternal with the Father, right? They're both fully God, right? So God the Son (fully God) prayed to the Father (fully God)? Unless his prayers were of no more purpose than to set an example for us (I highly doubt so).
But if Jesus was genuinely praying... There's my problem. The only other explanation on here is that Jesus was praying as the son of man instead of as God the Son... which also means that this passage is of no dilemma for oneness people and thus we should stop accusing them for saying that "God prays to Himself".
But if this passage is used to disprove oneness almost all the time, there has to be something more.
I thank you all for taking the time to answer. =)
"so in order to pray to god the spirit he had to pray"
Can you elaborate on this statement? It's a little confusing...
- 1 decade agoFavorite Answer
see god the son was in flesh and not spirit so in order to pray to god the spirit he had to pray plus all the times that he prayed he was trying to teach the disciples how to pray and to follow him see all the verses of jesus praying he was with a disciple or talking to them
but I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you
and when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. verily I say unto you, they have their reward
but thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy father which is in secret; and thy father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly
and all the other places that have anything to do with praying are on this cite
- Anonymous1 decade ago
No, Jesus the Son was praying to the Father
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee.
There is the distinction, but we must also remember that during this time, Jesus did not have His glorified body, it was until after the resurrection. Jesus is fully human, meaning He has all the properties necessary to be human, yet He isn't 'merely human' meaning He has abilities that regular humans don't possess as well as having all the properties necessary to be G-d (fully G-d, fully human). But we must remember that this prayer was during the Son's period of humility where He was fully dependent upon G-d in a slightly different way than He is now with a glorified body. Hope it helps.
A oneness explanation?!?
G-d is Three Divine persons And three Divine persons are one GOD. How is that oneness?
- DustLv 61 decade ago
"Is Jesus at the time of prayer God the Son and therefore fully God?"
Yes. Jesus never stopped being God the Son.
There are some differences of opinion among Christians about how to talk about this, so please don't be surprised if your answers reflect that. Some Christians would say that Jesus prayed to the Father in his humanity, but others might counter that this is unintentionally approaching Nestorianism (which said that Jesus existed as two persons, not one).
Beyond that, I don't really see the confusion. Since the Trinity doctrine says that the Father and the Son are distinct from one another, the Son could pray to the Father. Far from discrediting the Trinity, these verses AFFIRM that the Father and the Son are distinct.
- 4 years ago
Jesus prays to the Father to teach us. The Holy Spirit prays to the Father for us in ways that we can't on our own. The Father is the God-head, but all are God. I don't know of any written Word from God that tells us that the Father prays specifically. But, I do know that Paul tells us to pray without ceasing. My guess is that the Father does pray constantly, but not in the way that Jesus, who did so as a man at the time, prayed. God says in the scripture... "My ways are different from your ways." Yeah, I believe God prays; just in a different way than we do.
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- seekfindLv 61 decade ago
Jesus came down to earth as the Son of Man, leaving His divinity behind in heaven (Philippians 2:5-8) and He prayed to the Father as the Son of Man and not as Son of God. In any case the Father is greater than the Son in position, the First among Equals. God bless you.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Jesu peace be upon him <is a man> a creation from God. he prayed to God the creator.
Christians say that Jesus is God the man, he suffers, he eat he sleeps get hungry , he doesn't know the time of the hour, he prays to God, he worship him, he can't do nothing from himself, Then they contradict themselves when they say < he raised the dead, he cured the lepers the blind....> because he is God in the flesh.
If God is in the flesh than he is in the flesh, if he is not then he is not, You can't mix them.
The correct approach is of Islam >>> Jesus peace be upon him is a prophet of God that came with the same message <God is one, worship my God and your God , my Lord and your Lord> All the prophets were teaching this principle of salvation <God is 1 + follow the commands = salvation> But Christianity broke it < God is 3 in 1 + God died for your sins =Salvation!!!> Then Why God destroyed the people of Noah by the flood Pharaoh and his army in the time of Moses, the people of Lot and many other nations were destroyed Because of disbelief and mischief on the land.
Why God save some and punished others? In Islam God is just and perfect, never dies, never rested in the 7th day, never eat.....Nothing is like him.
Just give me one reason why he has to come to die for us?
In the Quran God created man but to worship him. and he sent prophets to show us how.
God forgives all sins but to worship others than him that are created and can do nothing to save you without the permission of God himself.
God created Jesu spbuh with no father, the same way he created Adam with no father no mother, they both are a word from God most powerful , the word is "BE" and they were.
Jesus son of Marry was the last prophet for the Jews, Prophet Muhammad came also with the same message <None has the right to be worshipped but God who created eveything. No angel, no man, no prophet, no moon, no sun, no fire, no statue...can save you but God who created them all. Islam means surrender your will to the will of God.Source(s): For help http://islam101.net/introductory-mainmenu-33/13-in...
- Anonymous1 decade ago
When Jesus was on the earth He was a man in every respect ,but He had God's blood in Him.
God the Father
God the Son (Jesus)
God the Holy Spirit.
Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father.
And He also lives in many peoples hearts.
1 IN THE beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
HERE IS YOUR ANSWER John 1 v 14
14And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth.
AMEN.Source(s): Philippians 2 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
- Bob DownLv 51 decade ago
The whole idea of religion is to keep the mugs on the back-foot (it makes them easier to control). That's why the Trinity story was so attractive to the hierarchy.
- 1 decade ago
TIME and again, Jesus showed that he was a creature separate from God and that he, Jesus, had a God above him, a God whom he worshiped, a God whom he called “Father.” In prayer to God, that is, the Father, Jesus said, “You, the only true God.” (John 17:3) At John 20:17 he said to Mary Magdalene: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” (RS, Catholic edition) At 2 Corinthians 1:3 the apostle Paul confirms this relationship: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Since Jesus had a God, his Father, he could not at the same time be that God.
The apostle Paul had no reservations about speaking of Jesus and God as distinctly separate: “For us there is one God, the Father, . . . and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 8:6, JB) The apostle shows the distinction when he mentions “the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels.” (1 Timothy 5:21, RS Common Bible) Just as Paul speaks of Jesus and the angels as being distinct from one another in heaven, so too are Jesus and God.
Jesus’ words at John 8:17, 18 are also significant. He states: “In your own Law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” Here Jesus shows that he and the Father, that is, Almighty God, must be two distinct entities, for how else could there truly be two witnesses?
Jesus further showed that he was a separate being from God by saying: “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” (Mark 10:18, JB) So Jesus was saying that no one is as good as God is, not even Jesus himself. God is good in a way that separates him from Jesus.
God’s Submissive Servant
TIME and again, Jesus made statements such as: “The Son cannot do anything at his own pleasure, he can only do what he sees his Father doing.” (John 5:19, The Holy Bible, by Monsignor R. A. Knox) “I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.” (John 6:38) “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.” (John 7:16) Is not the sender superior to the one sent?
This relationship is evident in Jesus’ illustration of the vineyard. He likened God, his Father, to the owner of the vineyard, who traveled abroad and left it in the charge of cultivators, who represented the Jewish clergy. When the owner later sent a slave to get some of the fruit of the vineyard, the cultivators beat the slave and sent him away empty-handed. Then the owner sent a second slave, and later a third, both of whom got the same treatment. Finally, the owner said: “I will send my son [Jesus] the beloved. Likely they will respect this one.” But the corrupt cultivators said: “‘This is the heir; let us kill him, that the inheritance may become ours.’ With that they threw him outside the vineyard and killed him.” (Luke 20:9-16) Thus Jesus illustrated his own position as one being sent by God to do God’s will, just as a father sends a submissive son.
The followers of Jesus always viewed him as a submissive servant of God, not as God’s equal. They prayed to God about “thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, . . . and signs and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant Jesus.”—Acts 4:23, 27, 30, RS, Catholic edition.
God Superior at All Times
AT THE very outset of Jesus’ ministry, when he came up out of the baptismal water, God’s voice from heaven said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” (Matthew 3:16, 17) Was God saying that he was his own son, that he approved himself, that he sent himself? No, God the Creator was saying that he, as the superior, was approving a lesser one, his Son Jesus, for the work ahead.
Jesus indicated his Father’s superiority when he said: “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor.” (Luke 4:18) Anointing is the giving of authority or a commission by a superior to someone who does not already have authority. Here God is plainly the superior, for he anointed Jesus, giving him authority that he did not previously have.
Jesus made his Father’s superiority clear when the mother of two disciples asked that her sons sit one at the right and one at the left of Jesus when he came into his Kingdom. Jesus answered: “As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father,” that is, God. (Matthew 20:23, JB) Had Jesus been Almighty God, those positions would have been his to give. But Jesus could not give them, for they were God’s to give, and Jesus was not God.
Jesus’ own prayers are a powerful example of his inferior position. When Jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: “Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.” (Luke 22:42) To whom was he praying? To a part of himself? No, he was praying to someone entirelySource(s): FOR MORE INFORMATION SEE WWW.WATCHTOWER.ORG