Why do some Christians believe that "messianic Jews" are the real Jews and real Jews are not real Jews?
In the answer to a current question, someone said this regarding Jews and "messianic Jews": ": IGNORE the many "traditional" Jews who will answer your question with insults and throw verbal stones at you. You are STILL A JEW and they, due to their unbelief, are not." The "they" which this person refers to are the approximately 13 million Jewish people of all branches (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, reconstructionist, etc) and the "unbelief" she refers to is the fact that Jews do not believe in Jesus. This answerer claims that the "messianic" Jews" (Christians who call themselves Jews) are the real Jews and the actual real Jews are not Jews. Is this person just plain crazy or just antisemitic or both?
Here is that question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=20090210185...
Discord: Your "thoughts on the matter as a Christian" are precisely that--your thoughts are AS A CHRISTIAN and therefore are irrelevant to what goes on within the religion called "Judaism". Jews and Jews alone have the right to determine their own identity and not Christians, whether they are honest and call themselves Christians or dishonest and call themselves "messianic Jews". Do you think the thoughts of Hindus should determine what constitutes Christianity? How about Muslims, should they be the ones who determine what Christianity is? No? How about if Hindus or Muslims just called themselves Christians but continued with their Hindu or Muslim beliefs, then would it be alright for them to dictate what Christianity is? That is what the Christians who call themselves Jews are doing--claiming that THEIR beliefs define Judaism, not the beliefs of real Jews. That is what is happening.
Discord: IF, IF, IF all you want. The point is Jesus is NOT our messiah. I can IF IF IF too, and because you seem to think that if if ifing makes for a valid, logical argument how about this: IF IF IF it was discovered that Moe of the three stooges was the messiah, would you give up your belief in Jesus and instead worship Moe? Well, would you? Huh? How about it? NO? Why not? Do you see how RIDICULOUS that statement of yours is?
- Anonymous1 decade agoBest Answer
Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion BUT,
not all opinions are deserving of any respect.
I was struck by the number of people answering that very question by telling her that she can essentially "have her cake and eat it too". But I noticed that the idea that you can believe in Jesus and remain Jewish NEVER comes from a Jew or someone that isnt Christian. (Actually most Christians know that you cannot be both Jewish and accepting of Jesus as your savior or Messiah.)
Be careful though. You posted earlier that your questions were being unfairly reported when commenting on Messianic Jews and I scoffed at you.....until my questions started getting deleted and reported. It seems that Messianics validate their twisted theology by trying to censor opposing views. You cannot worship Jesus and be torah observant. You cannot be torah observant and worship Jesus. Real simple fact that you just cannot get around.
- 4 years ago
Simple: All Jews believe (or should believe) in the Messiah. Messianic Jews are simply those who (like Jesus' Jewish disciples and the church in the first century) believe that Jesus is the Messiah that God promised them. According to the Bible, a Jewish person who believes that Jesus is the Messiah, becomes a "completed Jew". Christian means "follower of Christ". So, Messianic Jews are Jews who both believe and follow Christ as their LORD, Savior and Messiah. Because of Israel's unique position before God, Jews (secular ones for example) become "completed Jews" or in other words Jewish followers of Christ.
- JonathanLv 71 decade ago
I think it's because what they understand a real Jew to be. Most of them understand a "Jew" to be any heir of the promises God made to Abraham and Israel.
Not all of the descendants of Abraham were heirs of the promises. Abraham had two sons--Isaac and Ishmael. Only Isaac was an heir to the promises. And Isaac had two sons, too--Jacob and Esau--but only Jacob was an heir to the promises. So not all of Abraham's descendents are heirs of the promises.
Whoever IS an heir to the promises, then, depends on something other than mere descent.
I'm not a messianic Jew, and I don't know that much about them, but my guess would be that they define "Jew" as a person who is faithful to the covenants God has made. And since they believe God initiated a new covenant in the blood of Jesus, they figure Jews are those who are faithful to that covenant, and anybody who is not faithful to that covenant is not a Jew. That's my guess.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
The only people who think Messianics are anything but what they are (CHRISTIANS) are those who are so anti semitic that they DENY the right of Jews to define OUR OWN BELIEFS as we have done for 5000 years.
There is no group of 'traditional jews' here. There are those of us, like you and me that ARE JEWISH, in accordance with how JUDAISM DEFINES JEWISH IDENTITY.
And there are evangelical Christians, who are *literally* NON JEWS, just as Hindus/Muslims/Scientologists are literally not Jewish.
99% of Messianics were NEVER Jews at any point in time.
This is what we have to keep pointing out to people who just don't get it.
There is a reason why most mainstream Christian leaders CONDEMN Messianics - because of their utter lies and attempts to REdefine what 'jewish' means.
Well, they've been trying for over 2000 years ,one way or another - and they haven't managed and they won't manage.
- the article 'The Missionary Position'Source(s): WILMA DUCKIE: We are not telling Messianics what to believe. We are reminding them that they cannot follow Christianity and then CALL IT 'judaism'. That name is taken. Oh, and DISCORD: Do try and grasp this fact: your bible does not get to define, predict or decide what Jews will do and won't do. No Jews 'have come to jesus' - as we have explained to you HUNDREDS of times in this very forum. Any Jews that 'come to jesus' are thus by DEFINITION: CHRISTIANS. Does a Muslim who 'comes to jesus' remain a Muslim? No? How about a Hindu? No? Now apply that same logic to JEWS. And if you refuse to then yes that IS anti semitism, because you are using HITLER's definition of 'jewish'. Shame on you.
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- plushy_bearLv 71 decade ago
My guess is that because Jesus was Jewish and they follow him, they must consider themselves Jewish. It's a fallacy, because although Jesus was Jewish, the majority of his followers were not and the religion that was created by his followers diverged so significantly from Judaism that the two are no longer similar!
It is not halachaly (sp?) correct to worship anyone / anything OTHER than G-d. Our Moshiach is to be a live human, and certainly NOT to be worshipped!
To say otherwise is showing ignorance; it says that Judaism is no longer a valid religion! THAT is the height of arrogance!
Christians follow Christ, some also follow Christ and like to believe in what he believed. There IS a congregation (I believe in Detroit) that worships Jesus, but does not call themselves Jewish. I call them honest.Source(s): Reconstructionist Jew
- 1 decade ago
"Jews and Jews alone have the right to determine their own identity and not Christians, whether they are honest and call themselves Christians or dishonest and call themselves "messianic Jews"."
i see mama p. is right when she says jews have their identity appropriated just like us indigenous people do. i could easily say that statement about us..natives and natives alone have the right to determine their own identity and not white people, whether they are honest and call themselves white or dishonest and say they are "native in their heart".
what's up with that??? why trying to be someone you aren't all the time?
sorry i have no answer for you just more questions.
- 1 decade ago
The same way "mainstream traditional" Christians believe in Jesus as their salvation, & a newer sect of Christianity believes Jesus never existed.
That 2nd group is how much sense Messanics make when they claim they can force their Christian beliefs onto Judaism enmass by self-declaring themselves a branch of Judiasm -- against every Jewish procedure & belief.
- Ambi valentLv 71 decade ago
It really is extraordinary how people like Suzanne and other "Messianic Jews" think they have some superior existence which enables them to assign new meanings to words, which everyone else is expected to accept. This level of arrogance is normally associated with serious mental disorder, and perhaps that's true in this case. Nonetheless, I am bemused by the notion that the people who have always called themselves Jews have somehow got it wrong and she somehow has some mystical idea of what a 'real Jew' is and declares she is one. Most peculiar.
- VillageGirlLv 61 decade ago
Because Messianic Jews are essentially Christians.
- 1 decade ago
The person who composed that gem also believes that G-d sent the Holocaust to punish 'traditional Jews' for what she sees as our 'unbelief' in Jesus.
She holds to a particularly strident view of 'replacement theology' which distorts the very concepts of Judaism that she likes to think she claims for her and hers.
It's quite clear that she is temperamentally incapable of changing her mind. The best we can hope is to educate others so they can see through her rigidity.