Do you buy the argument that even if born in Hawaii, Obama is not "natural born"? It's going to the SCOTUS...?
On December 5, 2008, only ten days before the electoral college votes, the nine Justices of the U.S. Supreme Court will meet in private to discuss this case identified as:
Leo C. Donofrio, v. Nina Mitchell Wells, Secretary of State of the State of New Jersey
United States Supreme Court Docket No. 08A407
Donofrio contends the constitution says POTUS must be a natural born citizen, meaning born on US soil to two US parents. If this is upheld, McCain falls under the same ruling.
Obama, even if it were proven he was born in Hawaii, because his father was born in Kenya, having been born with split and competing loyalties, is not a ‘natural born citizen’ as required by Article 2, Section 1, of the U.S. Constitution.”
Article II of the Constitution is the only place Natural Born Citizen is addressed (eligibility for president), and the framers added a grandfather clause. It states a “Natural Born Citizen, or a Citizen at the time of the adoption of this Consitution.”
The Framers make a distinction between Natural Born Citizen and citizen, and clearly added the clause since they were born on U.S. soil but were British subjects at birth (thus, NOT Natural Born Citizens). The interpretation of Article II (by Donofrio and others) is that the Framers clearly intended that a Natural Born Citizen must be born on U.S. soil and have no encumbrances on their citizenship. In other words, both parents must at least be citizens.
The 14th Amendment provides situations where a person can become a Citizen, by statute - such as when an illegal alien gives birth to a child in the U.S. But this child would NOT be a Natural Born Citizen as provided in Article II.
In regard to McCain, I have long thought that military bases are considered U.S. soil and that there was no issue in regard to McCain’s Natural Born status. I thought this UNTIL I researched Donofrio’s case. He cites the Foreign Affairs Manual that specifically provides that a military base overseas is NOT U.S. soil. Also, the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1790 provided “Natural Born” status upon a child born abroad of two U.S. citizen parents - but this was repealed in 1795 and the words “Natural Born” were removed.
Donofrio makes a pretty compelling case that neither McCain nor Obama are Natural Born Citizens, since McCain was born in Panama and Obama was born with U.S. AND British citizenship (later became Kenyan). The issue is definitely “ripe” for interpretation by SCOTUS, which is what really gives me some hope.
Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States:
“No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”
The most overlooked words in that section are: “…or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution…” You must recall that most, if not all, of the framers of the Constitution were, at birth, born as British subjects.
Stop and think about that.
The chosen wording of the Framers here makes it clear that they had drawn a distinction between themselves - persons born subject to British jurisdiction - and “natural born citizens” who would not be born subject to British jurisdiction or any other jurisdiction other than the United States. And so the Framers grandfathered themselves into the Constitution as being eligible to be President. But the grandfather clause only pertains to any person who was a Citizen… at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution. Obama was definitely not a Citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution and so he is not grandfathered in.
And so, for Obama or anybody else to be eligible to be President, they must be a “natural born citizen” of the United States “at birth”. It should be obvious that the Framers intended to deny the Presidency to anybody who was a British subject “at birth”. If this had not been their intention, then they would not have needed to include a grandfather clause which allowed the Framers themselves to be President.
The allegation that Obama was born in Kenya to parents unable to automatically grant him American citizenship;
・ The allegation that Obama was made a citizen of Indonesia as a child and that he retained foreign citizenship into adulthood without recording an oath of allegiance to regain any theoretical American citizenship;
・ The allegation that Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery and that he may not be an eligible, natural-born citizen;
・ The allegation that Obama was not born an American citizen; lost an hypothetical American citizenship he had as a child; that Obama may not now be an American citizen and even if he is, may hold dual citizenships with other countries. If any, much less all, of these allegations are true, the suit claims, Obama cannot constitutionally serve as president.
・ The allegations that “Obama’s grandmother on his father’s side, half brother and half sister claim Obama was born in Kenya,” the suit states.” Reports reflect Obama’s mother went to Kenya during
Donofrio makes other allegations, but the "natural born" issue is the most compelling and what got the case to the Supreme Court.
:continued from above:
....her pregnancy; however, she was prevented from boarding a flight from Kenya to Hawaii at her late stage of pregnancy, which apparently was a normal restriction to avoid births during flight. Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama) gave birth to Obama in Kenya, after which she flew to Hawaii and registered Obama’s birth.”
・ The claim could not be verified by inquiries to Hawaiian hospitals since state law bars the hospitals from releasing medical records to the public;
Even if Obama produced authenticated proof of his birth in Hawaii, however, the suit claims that the U.S. Nationality Act of 1940 provided that minors lose their American citizenship when their parents expatriate. Since Obama’s mother married an Indonesian citizen and moved to Indonesia, the suit claims, she forfeited both her and Barack’s American citizenship.
Hawaii became a state in 1959.
Also, McCain is still very much relevant if Obama is declared ineligible (which unfortunately I still doubt will happen) and it is before the Electoral College meets on Dec 15th. Also, McCain is very much relevant until the Electoral College meets on Dec 15th. They are not bound by any one candidate or line or succession. It could (SHOULD) be the biggest constitutional crisis in American history.
And to think most people are so complacent and lazy that the media hasn't even BEGUN preparing them. This is going to come as a complete shock to the system.
This case, for everyone who didn't read, is about the definition of NATURAL BORN citizen -- not a citizen under the 14th Amendment.
The SCOTUS would not have expedited a hearing if it didn't have serious merit.
- MotherKittyKatLv 71 decade agoFavorite Answer
This is so sickening,...because with the 600 millions of zillions of dollars that Obama got for the campaign/payolla ....he will buy off the Judges and no one will be the wiser,...and the ones that do actually give a rats **** will be fired and they know it, I am sure they will be silenced...so nothing will do anything to 'that one'..
- Doctor WhoLv 61 decade ago
By law, anyone born on US soil (foreign embassies excluded) is a US citizen, regardless of the citizenship of the parents. This also includes US territories such as Guam and Puerto Rico. So far I've heard a lot of allegations, but have seen no proof that any of the allegations are true. Unless the filer of these actions can give real evidence and not just allegations, this case will be thrown out. In short, I will wait and see what happens.
- e.silleryLv 51 decade ago
If the Supreme Court were to decide the election were illegal could you imagine the race riots that would ensue? Rodney King verdict would look like a family argument.
I don't think the election is going to be overturned. I also find it hard to believe the Supreme Court would make it so no child of US military, born overseas, could run for President.
- LeoLv 71 decade ago
Why would the state of Hawaii issue a certified document that states not only the city he was born in but the exact time as well, 7:24am?
Donofrio doesn't make a compelling case at all when it comes to Obama. McCain at this point is irrelevant. Regarding Obama, even if was granted Kenyan citizenship due to his father being a Kenyan citizen, it would not affect his US citizenship. Likewise he could not have lost his citizenship because of his time in Indonesia as Berg and others have tried to claim because, according to US law, a parent cannot renounce a child's US citizenship and the child cannot do it themselves.
One thing that never comes up in these discussions is the fact that Obama has a US passport. We know he has one because a, he has traveled overseas in an official capacity and b, his passport records were illegally accessed some months ago. He would have had to prove citizenship in order to obtain the passport, citizenship that he would not have had to regain as suggested by Donofrio, Berg, Keyes and others.
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- Anonymous1 decade ago
I'd normally just slough this stuff off lame-brained political non-sense aimed at selling newspapers more than anything else. But why won't Mr. Obama provide his birth certificate? Seems like a slam dunk to me, anyone born in Hawaii should have one.
- 1 decade ago
Obama is not eligible to serve as U.S. President. He's an Indonesian citizen who has never applied for U.S. Citizenship.
Hopefully, the U.S. Supreme Court will stop this illegal alien Obama and put him in jail (or deport him).
That's how poor liars are treated. Why not treat a rich liar in the same way?
Sign the petition/emails to Congress and tell a friend:
- Wire TappedLv 61 decade ago
I disagree with Donofrio's suit, I am more inclined to believe that Bergs suit has actual merit. The whole "schooled in Indonesia, and had to be a citizen to do so" carries more weight, and seems to be the proper angle to accomplish the goal of getting at the truth regarding Obamas citizenship.
- 1 decade ago
All that about a non-issue. Swell.
Google "U.S. citizenship" and READ through the "uscis" site; it cites the MANY grounds for citizenship AND for dual citizenship, albeit what you STILL have are non-issues. Think, yes; believe the charges, no, not after thoughtful, un-preopinionated perusal. period.
NEXT !!!Source(s): U.S Title Code and numerous findings-in-law and legislation, as well as The Constitution NOT defining "natural-born."
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Obama could easily put this to rest by providing the documents. He has not. This leads me to believe that he has something to hide. I hope that this issue is not swept under the rug.
Berg as a practicing attorney (and a Democrat, BTW) would not risk being disbarred (meaning losing his licence to practice law) by filing a frivilous lawsuit. Federal Rule 46(b)(1)(B) states that a lawyer who "is guilty of conduct unbecoming a member of the court's bar" may be disciplined or disbarred. Under Rule 11, a federal rule that enables judges to penalize lawyers who violate the provisions contained therein. For example, Rule 11 requires the attorney signing pleadings to certify that the signer's knowledge, information, and belief were "formed after reasonable inquiry," that the pleading or motion is "well grounded in fact and is warranted by existing law or a good faith argument for the extension, modification or reversal of existing law, and that it is not interposed for any improper purpose." Thus, under Rule 11 an attorney is required to engage in additional investigation before signing the pleading. So Berg isn't wasting the courts time with a suit that has no merit. There are currently 3 separate lawsuits vs Obama regarding this matter. Three attorneys, all willing to be sanctioned or disbarred over nothing? I think not.
- ExileLv 51 decade ago
Let me get this straight: Are we suppose to believe that the two predominant parties would vet two completely ineligible candidates for POTUS? That would be a first. Then that would make Joseph Biden President---Yikes!
- peachyLv 61 decade ago
The simple answer is for Obama to provide the proper birth certificate. Evidently, he in his lawyer-minded, find the loop-holes, mentality, hasn't done that. Wonder why? hmmmm