Kaboose asked in Science & MathematicsBiology · 1 decade ago

Why does science still think evolution is a fact?

Evolution of life randomly is proven absurdly impossible mathematically and it also goes against the law of Entropy which everything in the universe drifts towards chaos. Only intelligence can make order out of chaos, and only intelligence can design something as complex as a living organism. Another thing, for example, a fish evolves scales into feathers, the intermediate state of this would be useless, and according to evolution, anything useless to the animal in helping it survive would be lost . A animal half bird, half fish, probably wouldn't survive long, but they say birds came from fish. There are so many logical things that disprove evolution yet they preach it like its a fact. why? is it because the only alternative is believing in God?

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  • 1 decade ago
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    >"Evolution of life randomly is proven absurdly impossible mathematically"

    If you mean the *ORIGINS* of life, then where is it "proven" that it is "absurdly impossible"?

    If you mean *EVOLUTION* of life after it started, then that is NOT RANDOM. That is the entire point of Darwinian natural selection. Evolution is NOT random but driven by relentless selection by the environment.

    >"... and it also goes against the law of Entropy which everything in the universe drifts towards chaos."

    That is NOT what the Law of Entropy says! It says that the entropy of a CLOSED system must increase. The earth is not a closed system ... it has an external energy source ... therefore there is no contradiction with the Law of Entropy. This is a great example of how reading Creationist literature leads to a badly mangled understanding of *ALL* fields of science (in this case physics). They *have* to redefine terms, oversimplify theories, and flat-out misstate laws in order to make their case!

    >"... Only intelligence can make order out of chaos"

    Trivially false. One word: snowflakes.

    A snowflake demonstrates that order can emerge spontaneously out of disorder. Why? Because of the way that energy enters the system from the sun. Slow heating of water vapor, followed by rapid cooling, produces order ... crystals. There are literally *thousands* of examples of processes in nature that produce order with no intelligence.

    >"... and only intelligence can design something as complex as a living organism."

    Well now you're just declaring dogma. "If I declare loudly enough that only intelligence can produce X amount of complexity, then it is true."

    >"Another thing, for example, a fish evolves scales into feathers"

    ??? So much of your argument depends on this absurd notion that bird features had to evolve in fish! NOBODY says that feathered creatures (birds) evolved directly from fish. They evolved from dinosaurs, which evolved from reptiles, which evolved from amphibians, which evolved from fish. Feathers are indeed useless to a fish, but they would be very useful to a warm-blooded land animal like a small dinosaur trying to stay warm while having to stay small, light, and agile.

    >"... the intermediate state of this would be useless"

    Again, just wrong. Small, warm-blooded dinosaurs living in a tropical environment would gain an advantage with even a small ability to venture into colder climates. So even a small amount of feathers allows for a few more colder nights and seasons survived, and therefore a few more offspring produced.

    >"A animal half bird, half fish, probably wouldn't survive long, but they say birds came from fish."

    NOBODY says that "birds came from fish"! As long as you keep going to Creationist sources to get your information about evolution, you will continue to make absurd arguments like this.

    >"There are so many logical things that disprove evolution yet they preach it like its a fact. why?"

    Because when "they" (scientists) say that "evolution is fact", all they mean is that *species evolve*. Period. That just means that species change over time. Do you deny that? Cocker spaniels and racehorses and dairy goats and corn and bananas are all products of human manipulation of evolution ... but it is evolution nonetheless. The Creationist sources you are reading will try to find another word for this besides evolution, but then they are just arguing over the definition of a word ... not over the *FACT* that *SPECIES CHANGE*. But since evolution is *defined* as the change in a species over generations, *EVOLUTION IS A FACT*.

    >"is it because the only alternative is believing in God?"

    There is NOTHING in evolution that contradicts belief in God. Nothing. Nada. Zip. I am a Catholic, not an atheist, and I have no problem accepting evolution. Neither does the Catholic church (home to over half of the world's 2 billion Christians), nor millions of non-Catholic Christians, nor any of the 11,000 Christian *clergy* members who signed the Clergy Letter Project (see source).

    The problem is that you are confusing "belief in God" with the simplistic, *literal* acceptance of the stories in the Bible. They are NOT the same thing.

    If you let go of literalism, not only does the Bible come *alive* as a source of really Deep Truths (capital D and T), but you can have faith in God *AND* you can accept the results of science. Science stops becoming the enemy (where you find yourself posting in science forums and getting bashed about by people who actually understand the subject) ... and science becomes a way of glorifying God! Properly understood, there is NO CONFLICT AT ALL.

    Source(s): The Clergy Letter Project ... signed by over 11,000 Christian *clergy members* ... evolution does NOT contradict belief in God: http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/Christian_Cler...
  • 4 years ago

    There are two answers to that question: 1) Randomness is not science fiction. 2) Evolution is not just "random chance." Natural selection (which is the process that we believe drives evolution) has a random component, and a non-random component. The random component is normal 'variation' ... the fact that not all individuals are identical. When your parents got together, there was an astronomically huge number of genetic combinations they could produce ... and yet they produced you. So there was a huge amount randomness in the fact that you are here, but that doesn't mean that anything supernatural had to occur to produce you. So if you can understand the random (and yet fully natural) component in your birth, that is the same random component involved in evolution. The non-random component is the 'selection' part. Some individuals have traits that make them slightly better adapted to their environment than others. They will go on to produce more offspring, and thus pass on those very traits. Nothing random about that at all.

  • 1 decade ago

    The mathematical proof falls on the side of evolution, see R.A. Fisher as a Prime example, one of the main leaders in the Neo Darwin Synthesis and one of the founders of modern statistics.

    You don't realize that the earth receives huge amounts of energy from the sun and the cosmos, rendering the system open and therefore fully compliant with the laws of thermodynamics.

    Not only intelligence can make order out of chaos, interaction between competing systems with feedback can make order. Any control systems engineer can explain that to you.

    And if the system is designed, you're left with who designed the designer, the regression makes a designer impossible as an explanation.

    The fish to bird thing took how long and how many steps? Feathers are better at retaining heat than scales, so they have a function other than flight (go ask a penguin!) In fact wouldn't a penguin be your half bird half fish?

    You misunderstand logic, the power of selection, the availability of hereditary variation, the amount of time involved, billions of years and the number of generations that were available for selection to work. Look at the way that a small number of body plans has been morphed into a huge number of different ways of life. Look at the DNA evidence. Open your eyes and read a bit and you might learn.

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    The only answer you will get from a evolutionist is that you are wrong, that that is a stupid question. That nobody ever said it was a fact (when RickK says it in every evolution question there is on here), and that you obviously don't know anything about evolution and you should just shut up. I can answer you though... They (well if no one else RickK does) treat it like it is a fact because it is the only explaination of how we got here that doesn't include a ''higher power'' that they have to be accountable to. It's as simple as that.

    Re RickK: Of course we say “it’s only a THEORY.” What proven facts are you talking about? The only things you have are things that haven’t been disproved. That doesn’t mean it’s proved or a FACT.

    And who says common sense makes it a fact either. Common sense in itself is so subjective it is ridiculous to use that as a way to prove things. If so I could say common sense clearly shows that God must have made the universe considering it is so intricate and complex. Magic tricks are based on common sense being wrong. So please, that is far from a good way to PROVE anything.

    The fossil record does NOT support evolution. There is an obvious lack of fossils to prove it. Note the Cambrian Explosion for example.

    Genetics does not prove evolution. Expecting to share genes with animals that look like us(genes make us look a certain way, go figure) and share less genes with ones that don’t is what YOU would call “common sense.” How does that prove anything?

    You say evolution is happening today in nature and in labs. Hmm that is odd considering if someone asks the question “Why don’t we see a half bird/half fish,” evolutionists say well duh stupid it takes millions of years to happen. But you say it is happening right now in nature. Hmm, I think we would call that adaptation, not evolution. Your links show paleontologists looking for evidence of the fish evolving into bird, it doesn’t show them finding any… Nice try though…keep working on your argument!

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  • 1 decade ago

    Your looking at the narrow viewpoint of evolution. It is more than just how different species have evolved through time. The other comments have given excellent answers to your post, which are easily answered had you just committed yourself to the topic.

    Meanwhile evolution has been and continues to be very important in our lives since it can be applied as a tool. It has lead to development of new crops, some which have increased crop yield to help meet the growing demand of food worldwide or others which are more resistant to certain pathogens. Evolution allows us to look at diseases and cures differently, leading to new methods for treating people. Evolution gives us insights into molecular functioning of molecules and has helped to identify other molecules (through homology) in humans that have been instrumental in understanding disease processes. And of course evolution has lead to the development of many of our pets and plant varieties (roses) that people adore.

    I hope this helps you understand that the importance of evolution goes beyond speciation and development of our current species. It is also important to note that even though something seems logical that does not make it science. Science is a process that involves experimentation and peer review (leaders in the field examine your work to determine if more research is needed and if it is valid). You do not have to accept evolution, but you are naive if you think you have not benefited from it.

  • kiddo
    Lv 4
    1 decade ago

    Take a course in Evolution, and then come back and re-read your post. It's absolutely absurd. Reading The Blind Watchmaker and The God Delusion might also be good for you. I'd try to explain but the gaps in your knowledge are too fundamental for me to believe you really have an open mind. Good luck fixing that in the future!

  • 1 decade ago

    There are many excellent books, journals, and classes which goes over each and every point you've raised, not to mention voluminous websites which you can check into for free. Furthermore, the "mathematical proof" of the impossibility of evolution has been discredited and debunked many times a long time ago, but some people persist in believing in it. Finally, it is ironic that while Creationists attack science almost across the entire front, dismissing just about every single finding, they choose the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics as the one absolutely "true fact". Surprise! Even physicists understand that there is no PROOF of such a law, it's merely accepted as true based on empirical evidence. But in fact with the latest experiments at nanoscales it's been shown that it can fail. The recent November 2008 issue of Scientific American has an article which explores how nature violates the 2nd law, thus giving rise to complexity.

    There's a term for your kind of worldview on evolution, it's called "willful ignorance". The evidence or case for evolution is in vast abundance, but you willfully choose to ignore and dismiss all of it.

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    have you heard of things like comparitive embryology, fossils, and comparitive anatomy annnddd geographic distribution of organisms, annnnddd then the examination of amino acid differences

    once you hav done a study in all those things come back and say evolution is nothing

    ps we did not evolve from modern day apes, so thats why there are stil apes, we simply have a common ancestor, and we evolved differently... thats the theory

    nothing a short course of year 12 biology cant solve

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    Kaboose - why would God put all this evidence here that evolution occurs? WHY DO YOU IGNORE THE EVIDENCE OF THE NATURAL WORLD GOD PUT RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU? Why do you choose to spurn the very powers of reason that God gave you? Why do you think that the only way to show faith is to promote ignorance?

    Evolution is a fact - you ARE the product of evolution from earlier (yes, ape-like) forms. Consider the evidence:

    Common sense says, if we see small changes today within species, that small changes over a long time will become large changes. That makes more sense than "everything appeared suddenly from thin air, but magically containing all this evidence that it evolved."

    Evolution is set of proven facts. People will respond by saying it is "Only a Theory", but they don't understand (or refuse to accept) that a scientific theory is a model supported by many facts that nobody has yet disproved.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory#Sci...

    Paleontology and the fossil record completely support evolution. The theory of evolution even predicts some fossils before we find them. Any good scientific theory makes many predictions. Here's a good example of a prediction made by evolution that then came true:

    http://tiktaalik.uchicago.edu/searching4Tik.html

    People will say the fossil record doesn't support evolution. That is a lie. What they are doing is distorting the statements of scientists like Stephen Jay Gould, who said the fossil record doesn't support classic Darwinian "gradualism" - the idea that change occurs at a constant rate. It's not steady - it happens in fits and starts. BUT, Gould and all other credible scientsts agree the fossil record completely supports biological (non-Divine) evolution from one species to another. Think of Darwin as Newton and Gould as Einstein - the theory of relativity didn't make Newtonian physics invalid - it refined it and added to it. Similarly, Gould (et al.) refined Darwinian evolution.

    http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:tZMrPOCceqkJ:...

    Geology supports evolution - we NEVER find fossils from one age embedded in the rock from a different age.

    Genetics supports evolution 100%. If evolution is true, then we'd expect humans to share some genes with mushrooms, lots of genes with fish and most genes with primates. And guess what - we do!

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

    Molecular biology proves that all life comes from common ancestors:

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section4.h...

    Evolution can be seen happening today, in nature and in labs.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/science/26lab.ht...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evo...

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/08041...

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13845002/

    So if your beliefs do not agree with the reality of evolution, and that bothers you, you will have to find a way to reconcile your beliefs. Perhaps you can follow the guidance of these 12,000 enlightened Christian clergy:

    http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/Christian_Cler...

    If you'd like more information, or explanations of any of this, please write.

  • 1 decade ago

    It is a fact. Use my email, and address one point at a time if you are ready to learn. I would be happy to explain things.

    For those who are a little behind on this, the theory of evolution is both a theory and a FACT.

    quickly though - entropy increases in CLOSED systems (the sun supplies energy to our system, so it's not closed)

    fish didn't evolve directly into birds. we came from fish too, in the sense you are using.

    five pillars of data support evolution, all corroborating the same "family tree" of all living things. none can be toppled. the more we look, the stronger they get. they are: mitochondrial DNA, nuclear DNA, (the first two are proof enough already), biological function of organs/atavisms, phylogeny (shape of animals), and fossils/nuke dating/plate tectonics

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