Anonymous
Anonymous asked in Society & CultureHolidaysRamadan · 1 decade ago

Who do you think is right in this situation?

My father is an Imam, and a group of Pakistanis came to the mosque, when ashr salat was just about to begin. Instead of joining prayer with us, they formed there own salat, and started going up to other men saying, dont sali behind the Imam as he doesnt grow his beard. My dad does grow his beard and always has, its jst well kept, and regulary trimmed. When we finished salat, we came up to them, and my dad said to them, brothers why didnt you do salat with us? They started accussing my father that he doesnt love the prophet(pbuh), neither does he follow the prophets (pbuh) ways. Then some loyal bosnian men started screaming for them to get out of the mosque, as they are only causing fitnah. They went away, but kept saying this is not your mosque, it is Allah's house and we can pray here if we wish to? in this particular situation who is right. They were causing fitnah, but even still is it haram to kick people such as them frm a Mosque.

Update:

ummTalal im Arab alhamduillah! We dont get alot of Pakistanis, mainly arabs, bosnians and turks come to pray with us!

Update 2:

Aziz what do you mean "What are you doing towards that end?"

Update 3:

Dhul Qarnayn but my dad does grow his beard ! its not like theirs (long and unkempt) , but its still a beard! As sunnah you are meant to take care in your appearance.

Update 4:

Im only in final yr of high school so i cant do much! But my dad does alot of those things already.

Update 5:

Jee Jee i already know wht my father thinks of it, but i was wanting other people's opinions of it!

8 Answers

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  • 1 decade ago
    Favorite Answer

    They were creating discord for no reason. It is this close minded bigotry and ignorance by men who profess to be its guardians for the reason why Islam is looked upon as intolerant.

    Time to take Islam back from men like those. What are you doing towards that end brother?

    EDIT: I meant what are you doing individually, as a Muslim, to take back representation of Islam from extremists like those? Do you hold discussion groups among like minded people? Do you aspire to political power to help Muslims? Do you write to the media? Thinking of setting up a Muslim magazine? Do you strategize on how you could talk to such men and reason with them to overcome their bigorty?

    For just complaining won't do.

  • 1 decade ago

    Salam for you my dear Harun.I think your dad as an imam is right .The Pakistanis group should should joing you dad and jama'ah to pray in togetherness with them as suggested by Muhammad pbuh.Growing beard is not a must it is only a suggestion and can not reject the validity of praying.The Pakistanis group was wrong to make an another group of praying at the same mosque because the mosque is the house of Allah and it is free to be used by all muslims.All muslims are brothers and we should pray in togetherness because its rewards will be maximum.We should follow the early imam(your father) and we(in this situation the Pakistanis group) should join them to do praying.

    The Bosnians group is right too that we can not talk about fitnah inside the mosque. and also outside the mosgue.The attitude of Pakistanis group was wrong. It is not haram to kick out people from the mosque if we have a strong reason.Fitnah is not allowed by Allah as stated in the Qur'an and also by Muhammad pbuh as explained in his hadits.

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    It was wrong to kick them out (well to say it maybe the way it was) of the mosque bc it is Allahs house and no ones elses.

    But on the other hand astagfurAllah they were very wrong. What they did was not allowed. As Muslims we 'have" to pray behind the imam and the beard is only sunnah (and your fathers choice).

    The Prophet, peace be upon him, said:

    'The imam is appointed to be followed as a leader, so do not oppose him."

    [Muwatta Hadith 3.61]

    Abu Hurairah reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said,

    "The imam is a guarantor, and the caller to prayer is one who is given the trust. O Allah, guide the imam and forgive the caller to prayer."

    An Imam can be replaced. However, while he is in the position he is, he should be obeyed, except that he should never be obeyed in the instruction to do the haram (prohibited in Islam).

    Narration - Reported by 'Abdullaah ibn Ahmad, as the saying of his father, Imaam Ahmad, in as-Sunnah (nos.4-5)

    The five daily Prayers must be prayed behind anyone [muslim] except a Jahmee, since he denies (all of the attributes of Allaah). If you have prayed behind him, repeat your Prayer. On the day of Jumu'ah (friday sermon), if your Imaam is a Jahmee and he is a ruler, pray behind him, (but) repeat your Prayer.

    I think Allah alim that these men were just looking for trouble and causing fitnah. The mosque is not a place for this. They should have went to pray not check your father out and talk to each other.

    Are you Arab? Any Muslim in here no matter what their culture is will tell you that mosque are usually very differant by culture. My family and I are Arab and when we moved I went to a Paki mosque and it was VERY differant from the Arab mosque (women were praying out loud, mixing was going on in the mosque, men came to the womens section.) I was very uncomfortable. Arabs tend to be more consevitive, alhumdullah.

    But who knows these men sound like extremist so they would have thought anythinng was wrong. This is what our ummah is faced with today sadly.

  • 1 decade ago

    I don't want to say what is haraam and what is halal because I don't know for sure. But in my opinion, I think that the group of pakistanis are wrong. I mean, all of a sudden, they just start doing that? For what reason? That is just rude and wrong of them. But I don't know about kicking them out of the mosque. Your dad is an imam right? He should know weather it is haraam or halal. Hope this helped!

    Your sister,

    Jee Jee

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  • 1 decade ago

    Shaving beard is Fisq and the one who does that is Fasiq. It is preferable to have an Imam having a beard. However, if such an Imam is not available, then it is allowed to offer Salah behind a beardless Imam.

    It is agreed upon by the Ahle-Sunnah-Wal- Jam'ah that offering Salah behind every righteous or Fasiq Muslim is allowed and his Salah is valid so that there is unity amongst the Muslims, in order to avoid any conflict.

    Therefore they were wrong in not offering Salah behind the imam. Those who do not offer Salah behind him should start doing so, in order to avoid any conflict. However, as soon as an Imam with beard is available, they may start offering Salah behind him, and Allah knows the best.

  • 1 decade ago

    I think thats crap, ,but i don't think its surprising. A lot of people think you can't be a muslim without a 1-fist length beard.

    I'm not sure about kicking them out.....its one of those i'd have to be there. I'm not really the loyalist type. I have noticed that, people will defend their family and friends even when they are the ones that are wrong......

    Guess it comes down to how much of a fuss they really did make

  • Saify
    Lv 4
    1 decade ago

    OK

    what ever happened was right

    they should have prayed behind one imam in one mosque (two jamats in one masjid in not right)

    they started firnah you kicked them that was right

    but plz ask your father not to trimm his beard coz we are ordered to LEAVE OUR BEARD

  • 1 decade ago

    What they did what wrong. Regarding the second Jama'a issue, I think the following fatwa might help:

    "This issue is controversial among jurists. The Hanafi, Maliki, and Shafi`i scholars maintain that it is Makruh(disliked) to hold a second Jama`ah in the Masjid (mosque) that has a regular Imam. The reason behind this is that it might cause dissension and hatred among people, besides some evil people may take advantage of this to delay the first Jama`ah so that they could pray with an Imam who agrees with their own sect or innovated way of religion. To prevent such dissension and evil schemes, the afore-mentioned jurists hold that it is not permitted to hold a second Jama`ah in the same Masjid where there is a regular Imam.

    However, Imam Ahmad, Is-haq, Ibn Al-Mundhir and – according to At-Tirmidhi – some Companions of the Prophet and their successors maintain that there is nothing wrong in people holding a second Jama`ah if the regular scheduled Jama`ah has already been over for the same prayer. They base their argument on the hadith reported by Imam Ahmad in his Musnad and Abu Dawud in his Sunan and At-Tirmidhi on the authority of Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) who entered a Masjid after the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had prayed, then the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Who would like to give this man a charity by praying with him?” Then a man (Abu Bakr, may Allah be pleased with him) came up and prayed with him.

    Reviewing these views, we conclude that the second opinion is the most correct.

    As for the Masjid which does not have a regular Imam, it is held by consensus that it is not disliked to have a second Jama`ah."

    As for praying behind an Imam without beard, this is another fatwa:

    It is not correct to say that we are not allowed to pray behind someone who shaves his beard: This is neither the authentic view of the Hanafi school of jurisprudence nor the preferred view of the majority of scholars and jurists.

    Such a view is contrary to sound reasoning in fiqh, even as it is contradicted by the sound practice of As-Salaf As-Salih (Arabic for "the Pious Forefathers"). Let me explain this point further:

    Growing a beard is considered one of the recommended acts in Islam: While some of the scholars consider it as a great Sunnah, others consider it as obligatory. However, every objective scholar of Islam would agree that growing beard is not at all one of the integrals of faith; and no one can say that a person's faith is incomplete without it. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said, " Growbeards and trim moustaches in order to set yourself apart from the Magians." So, it is reasonable to say that his intent was to identify Muslims in case of a confrontation.

    As for the issue of validity of Prayer, there is no mention anywhere in the sources that a Muslim's Prayer is rendered invalid because of his failure to grow a beard. How can anyone say that a Muslim's Prayer is rendered invalid because of his failure to carry out any of the duties of faith in entirety? The Prophet said, "Whatever I have commanded you to do, do it to the best of your ability." It would be absurd for anyone to rule that the Prayer of a Muslim who shaves his beard is invalid; if we were to say so, then he would have to rule that Prayer of everyone who is guilty of any sin would also be rendered invalid.

    Coming more precisely to the point about whether we are allowed to pray behind an imam who shaves his beard, the answer is "yes." For the most, one can say about such a person (i.e. who shaves his beard, thus deviating from the Sunnah) is that he is guilty of a major sin and therefore he may be considered a fasiq (sinner/ transgressor); however, no one in his right mind would go as far as calling that person a kafir or infidel. Thus if we were to consider him a fasiq, then the preferred view, as authenticated by scholars and jurists, is that we are allowed to pray behind with him being the imam. This is the view of the Hanafi school, as it has been stated in the famous work of the Hanafi school called Bada'i` As-Sana'i` fi Tartib Ash-Shara'i` by Imam `Alaa' Ad-Din Al-Kasani (587 AH). The reasoning is stated as follows: We are allowed to pray behind any one whose Prayer is considered as valid. No one would say that Prayer of a fasiq is invalid.

    Furthermore, as explicitly stated in the above-mentioned work, this point of view is supported by clear precedents from the practice of As-Salaf As-Salih, including the Prophet's Companions and their successors: It is well-known that great Companions, such as Anas ibn Malik and Ibn `Umar, as well as great scholars of the generation of Tabi`in (first generation of Muslims after the death of the Prophet) used to pray behind tyrants such as Hajjaj and others who were guilty of far more heinous crimes and sins. Who would dare to compare the sin of shaving one's beard with the crimes of Hajjaj who was a mass murderer as many innocent people perished at his hands?

    Those Companions and scholars of As-Salaf As-Salih who prayed behind such tyrants and despots never thought it to be wrong to pray behind a fasiq: Their reasoning being that Prayer is the noblest deed that a person can ever do, and hence there is no justification in refusing to pray behind such people if they happened to lead the Prayer.

    Having said this, however, I must add: If we have a choice to do so, we should put forward to lead the salah only those who are exemplary in their character and knowledge.

    To conclude: The authentic view of the Hanafi school and the most preferred view of scholars is that we are allowed to pray behind people who shave their beards just as we are allowed to pray behind people who are guilty of sins, although in the event of a choice, we are best advised not to put them forward as imams to lead the salah.

    ADDITION:

    I agree with your dad. I don't know if there was anything ambiguous about those fatwas.

    Allah knows best.

    Peace be unto you.

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