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Ryssa C asked in PetsDogs · 1 decade ago

I here a lot of bad things about the C.K.C ?

What about the show on National Geographic the other day about line bred dogs threw the A.K.C. and the problems the purebreds were incountering. My family dreams of becoming a breeder not a puppy mill, we want to breed quality family, show, and working dogs. We think the dogs should speak for themselves not there papers. Is this a wrong idea?

Update:

I understand that need for homes for shelter dogs... I advocate and help foster many unwanted dogs. I also belive dog owners are the ones who need the help in understanding before the animals end up in shelters and auction yards. I belive in helping people work threw the problems they are facing and try to help with the connection of unwanted dog/horse/? To family or person wanting and needing that animal. I am active in our area with the canines and equines. I also belive there is always something to learn and people who have the love of these animals can grow and be amazing animal owners and even professionals. There are many misplaced animals and people in this world, that doesn't mean there isn't a place for babies or people who make them happen.

Update 2:

I never said I was NOT or did NOt want to register with A.K.C or any other club for that matter! I NEVER said I was NOT going to get my dogs health tested either, other dogs can pass the same health test as A.K.C dogs I have seen it first hand ... I am just trying to learn and looking for answers..

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    My chihuahuas are CKC about the olny thing good the papers are is you can sell them for more if they have them but I never get the puppies papers if some one asks I will but other then that theres no reason to have them

    I know 1 of my firends do and they sell them for alot more then I do and they have them for ever until they are like 15 to 20 weeks old hers are AKC I have mine until they are like 10 to 11 weeks old and I take mine to the vet and my friend does not..

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  • 1 decade ago

    Your logic is flawed- I don't know of ANYONE breeding dogs without papers where the dogs have had their health testing, AND meet the breed standard.

    Yes, there are problems in every breed- and it honestly is something that sort of snowballed- health testing didn't exist until fairly recently. When these tests were developed, the damage had been done- there were dogs who were GREAT representatives of the breed that were widely used to create puppies- generations and generations of puppies- only to contract a genetic disorder years down the road. There was no testing for this, so the health issues didn't rear their ugly head until the dogs that passed them on were older- much older. To state one example in my breed- Eaton Affirmed- he produced a TON of puppies- he is in the 5 generation pedigrees of 3 of my 4 dogs- all 4 from different breeders and different lines.

    Now that testing exists, responsible breeders spend hours and hours of research, not just health testing, but researching the pedigrees and the lines- this is to create the healthiest puppies they can.

    Another problem, is that BYB's were breeding these same diseased, genetically inferior dogs. It was limited to "show homes"- no one had access to the health testing.

    Today, it's a different story- reputable breeders will do extensive testing on their dogs to rule out genetic disorders that can be tested for- there are some that can't be tested for (addison's is one)- for this, responsible breeders spend those hours pouring over the pedigrees of the dogs they want to breed and search to see if any of the dogs in the pedigree, or related to that dog have been inflicted with these diseases- in poodles, there is a poodle health registry where (responsible breeders) can publish the dogs they own or have bred who have contracted these untestable genetic disorders.

    BYB's and those breeding "non-registered" dogs STILL don't do this testing and this research. So, while the reputable breeders go through great pains to make sure that they are producing the healthiest/happiest pups they can- BYB's are still pumping out as many as they can with zero regard for structure and health.

    So, that's why anyone who wants a "great" dog will not go looking at unregistered dogs.

    Hope this helps!

    AP

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  • anne b
    Lv 7
    1 decade ago

    I also do not understand your question. Why dont you want to register with the AKC? Is it because you have inferior dogs who are not registered and want to breed? If so, you are contradicting your own statement:

    "I understand that need for homes for shelter dogs... I advocate and help foster many unwanted dogs."

    I find it very hard to understand how someone who does rescue would want to bring even more inferior quality dogs into this world.

    If you want to breed, do it right-dont take the short cuts some of these posters have suggested by registering with a crap registry that means squat. The only good registries in this country are the AKC and the national parent breed club of each pure breed (this noticeably does NOT include the "designer" clubs).

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  • Saucy
    Lv 6
    1 decade ago

    I don't understand either... You ask about the CKC, then talk about the AKC. The CKC allows people to "register" dogs that aren't good quality stock or aren't even purebred. The AKC assures the dogs being bred are of quality stock, genetically good and purebred.

    If you want to breed show dogs, they HAVE to be registered AKC. All AKC breeders also test for genetic defects, so be prepared for that. I know you want the dogs to speak for themselves, but that comes through registration and genetic testing. You can't tell from the outside of the dog whether it's healthy or not.

    So yeah, it is a wrong idea. Backyard breeding (or breeding without registered dogs just to make money) produces more bad dogs than good. And these dogs are never registered... so they're just overpriced mutts most of the time.

    Get involved with the AKC. Get a mentor and breed dogs that people like. Breeding is about keeping breed standard or breeding to better the breed, not for making money.

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  • tom l
    Lv 6
    1 decade ago

    There are two very different CKCs you know.

    Continental Kennel Club, is a registry founded by individuals that AKC suspended for breeding infractions.

    Canadian Kennel Club is the equivalent of AKC in Canada.

    The myth about all the line breeding problems is caused by the record keeping of conscientious breeders. If they threw out all their records of problems it would quickly become obvious that all dogs are the same when it comes to the possibility of breeding problems. The reason for keeping those records is to remove affected animals from the breeding programs.

    The papers serve several functions, first of which is to prove that your dog is all that you say it is. So you are breeding working dogs. How is it that you plan to prove to me that they are? Much easier to do if you have a piece of paper hanging on the wall from a kennel club stating that the dog is a Field Champion. So you say your dog has proper conformation. How are you planning to prove that to me? Much easier if you have a piece of paper from the kennel club saying your dog is a Champion.

    There would be no way for the kennel club to maintain these championship records unless you first register your dog.

    Source(s): breeder trainer exhibitor
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  • jaclyn
    Lv 6
    1 decade ago

    AKC doesn't make the dog healthy or quality anymore than CKC makes a dog not healthy or quality breeders. Use whatever club you feel comfortable with. The only reason to use AKC is that you want to be involved with showing. If not then use whatever is convenient for you. I use a hybrid registry for our puppies.

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  • 1 decade ago

    Canadian or Continental?

    Canadian Kennel Club is pretty well equivalent to American Kennel Club for most intents and purposes.

    A registration with Continental Kennel Club is basically pointless. They will register ANYTHING that basically looks like a purebred something or other based on PHOTOS of the dog. While AKC does not, as a previous poster incorrectly stated, guarantee a darned thing about the genetic quality of a dog, they DO track pedigree, and that's what papers are for. Frankly, that's all papers are for, when it comes down to it. If you are not registering with an organization that keeps *careful* track of multi-generation pedigree (and no, AKC is not the only one who can do this, just the biggest), then there is utterly no point in wasting your money except to fool your puppy buyers who think that just having "papers" means something nifty. I have a dog with blatantly *fraudulent* papers through ConKC and they said it wasn't their problem -- and per their charter, it isn't! AKC would have kicked the breeder to the curb for the same offense.

    If you're going to breed show animals, you need to think about what organization you plan to show with. AKC is not the only game in town, but it is the most common, and I've learned that anyone who shows AKC-recognized breeds without having AKC papers is not always, but usually, a little sketchy. I'm not always a fan of AKC myself, but I do have to question why people would choose not to stick with AKC and their motives are rarely good. Now, if you're in a breed like Australian Shepherds, there can be breed-specific registries like ASCA, or Australian Shepherd Club of America, where you could do all of your show AND working dog titles through them without touching AKC. If you have a rare breed dog like Shiloh Shepherds or Cane Corsos, you would not be eligible for AKC and would want to look into venues like Rarities or ARBA or RBCSWO. But just as someone else said, if you're planning to be reputable, you need to have SOME measure that you are using to demonstrate, to yourself if no one else, what is the quality of your dogs. What are your main goals in breeding? Conformation? Working? What kind of work? Obedience? Agility? Herding? Flyball?

    Yes, you're absolutely right that the dogs should speak for themselves, and yes, papers are just paper, however do make sure you understand what those pieces of paper represent. Not all papers represent the same thing.

    One other note -- you can't lump all 150+ AKC breeds together under the same category of "too much linebred" or too much anything else. You need to look into the breed that you plan to become involved with, and you need to understand what is going on in that breed. Some breeds are much more heavily line bred than others. These are things you MUST understand before getting involved in breeding regardless of which registry you choose to align with.

    My strongest advise is to go to some shows or working events, start to meet people involved in the types of things you want to get involved with, set up some appointments to sit and talk with some local breeders, and find yourself a really good mentor (or two!). Often, Yahoo! groups that are specific to your breed are a great way to learn from people from all over the country. It is utterly impossible to breed *correctly* without having good connections with other people in your breed, so you'll want to get out there and meet people.

    Good luck!

    Source(s): Professional trainer, breed enthusiast, and performance competitor in several dog sports
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  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    There are already too many animals in this world, have alook at the shelter animals, if you decided to breed, but remember each pup you find a home for, say you have a litter of 6puppies, you find a home for each, this means 6 shelter dogs/ or puppies will die.

    Contary to popular belief, its not only the adults that can't find homes, puppies don't alway find homes either. Puppies have a higher chance of finding a home, but not all will.

    A.K.C is a excellent reistration

    But look at the RSPCA statics in the 2006-2007 range

    Dogs

    30.0%were reclaimed

    28.8% were rehomed

    3.0%were in stock

    2.6% were transfered

    32.5% were Euthanased

    3.1% were other

    Cats

    3.0% were reclaimed

    32.8 %were rehomed

    3.0% were in stock

    2.4%were transfered

    57.0 were Euthanased

    1.8% were other

    Other Animals

    11.9% were reclaimed

    16.0%were rehomed

    4.1%were in stock

    9.7%were transfered

    49.8% were Euthanased

    8.5% were other

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  • 1 decade ago

    You can breed healthy dogs that are not AKC registered.

    But you need to have them resistered with some registry. There are many ,some are international. Most of these have higher standards for breeding. There is also The American Canine Hybrid Club.(this is for registering mix breed that the parentage is know )There is many breeds that have been around for hundreds of years that AKC does not register .

    This site talkes about breeding -linebreeding,crossbreeding, and outbreeding This follows my personaly thought on breeding

    http://www.netpets.com/dogs/healthspa/bragg.html

    Sorry this material is long but it is full wonderful information for any one who wants to breed

    link to this regitry

    ANIMAL RESEARCH FOUNDATION

    http://www.stodghillsarfregistry.com/

    look at its requirements to register - 5 generation pedigree

    and CODE OF ETHICS FOR BREEDERS

    then check this registry out

    The International Progressive Dog Breeders' Alliance

    http://ipdba.8k.com/index.html

    They allow the the registry of no puerbreeds to be registered as fondation stock. There a little more open for those wanting to develope a breed.

    this site is full of doggy info

    http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/abc.htm

    I plan on breeding great danes in the future .

    Look at these breeding standards.

    http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcol...

    http://www.chromadane.com/standardcoat.h...

    Here is a link to the Great Dane Club of America

    http://www.gdca.org/colorcode.htm

    One major problem with the breeder's color code

    harliquin to harliquin breeding

    The genes that interact to make this pattern are dominate and cause health issues and can be fatal if either is in a homozygous state.

    Yet, fawn/brindle to black(blue,chocolate) is discouraged

    I have studied the gentics of coat color and here is a link for that

    http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html

    The genetic health of all dogs, which should be the first priority of any breeder, followed by form and function ,and conformation last, yes last. Coat and eye color do not need to meet breed standard for the dog to perfectly heathly!

    I have done a lot of reseach on breeding and I agree with you 100% that the dog should speak for itself.

    ADD:

    Continental Kennel Club does not just allow the any dog to register as a purebreed with out proof. Just as AKC doesn't.

    This link goes to CKC registration rules. http://www.continentalkennelclubfaqs.com/Rules.asp...

    There are scrupulous breeder in the AKC just as ther can be in any Registry.

    and for those that say I shouldn't breed-

    My breeding plans are for the future 2 or more years but I already am working with a breeder that is AKC & CKC registered.

    I know I'm going to get thumbs down but o-well I have done my reseach and not just throwing bias option out!

    .

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  • 1 decade ago

    I dont understand,

    But papers are the only way to prove ur dog is pure. u cant have show dogs without papers and u cant be a good breeder without them.. if thats wat ur getting at

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