Anonymous
Anonymous asked in Society & CultureReligion & Spirituality · 1 decade ago

In Explaining the Trinity.......?

.... why do Trinitarians use illogical examples?

I just saw an answer that says the trinity is like an apple- consisting of three parts.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200803...

Now you tell me- is the peel (skin) of the apple "an apple" on its own? Would you buy apple peels at the price of regular apples at your local grocery?

Or would you accept an apple pip from someone offering you "an apple"? How about if someone offered you an apple pie that contained nothing but apple seeds? Would you accept their explanation that all parts of an apple are "an apple"?

So why should non-Trinitarians accept that "the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but they are not three Gods but One, and each on his own is God".......

Who here on R&S would agree to change $3 for $1, since we are to believe that 3=1?

Update:

Marmen: If you would just read the Bible for yourself, you would see the truth.

To you I say "Tu quoque"

Update 2:

Ok- some people say that being a wife, mother and daughter at the same time makes you a trinity of a kind.

But how many PEOPLE are you?

How many times are you counted during the census?

How many passports would you hold as this 'multiple' individual? A Wife, Mother and Sister passport- three in all?

How much car space do you take up if your mother, husband and daughter are also in the car at the same time?

Three spaces?

Don't make me laugh.

Update 3:

Anna- there are still THREE Smiths. If Mary dies will you say "the Smiths died"? Or that the Smith unit died? No, they are united as a family but still THREE individuals.

Mary is neither Jon nor Bob, and vice-versa and vice-versa.

Try again.

Update 4:

Pastor...- Only one of all my Bible translations renders 1 John 5:7 in that way, and it has a footnote stating that those words were not in the original text (Why they included them, God knows)

"In our image" just means that God was speaking to someone.

"Our" and "us" just mean more than one person, how do you know God was speaking to twenty spirit creatures? Or just one?

34 Answers

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  • THA
    Lv 5
    1 decade ago
    Favorite Answer

    --EXCELLENT question and reasoning on your details!

    --I FIND THE ANALOGIES, illustrations, they try to use in proving the trinity are really funny and very out of place!

    --FOR INSTANCE , on the egg, 3 parts of h20, 3 leave clover, apple etc.:

    --ABSOLUTELY NONE of these illustrations can stand for the loving relationship, that Jehovah God & Christ exhibit to each other.

    ---INCLUDING respect, appreciation, affection etc.

    --DOES THE WHITE of the egg cuddle up with the yolk and express the unity they have once they are scrambled?

    --INTERESTING ALSO IS THE trinity violates the definition of faith:

    (Hebrews 11:1) “. . .Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.”

    ***NOTHING "assured", "evident" or "real" about the unreasonable trinity!

    The trinity like evolution can be compared to the no substance cloth that the syster tailors weaved for the foolish emperor in the "Emperor's New Cloths"

  • Lisa
    Lv 4
    4 years ago

    The Trinity is a construct based partly on the Gospel of John, Chapter 1, about "the Word (Logos)". "...And the Word was with God, and the Word was God, ... (and) in the beginning with God... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us". This is a mystical reference to Jesus Christ that has been interpreted by the Christian Church as meaning that he was part of God, and is now believed to be the second Person of God. The first Person is God the Father. They also refer to the story of Christ’s baptism when a dove appears above Jesus’ head, and a voice is heard saying “This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased” (Matthew 3:17 and Luke 3:22). There are many references to the Holy Spirit in the New Testament, and again this has been interpreted by the Christian Church as the third Person. Some theologians have tried to square the circle by explaining that the Son issues from the Father, from eternity, and the love between the Father and Son is itself a Person, the Holy Spirit. The doctrine of the Trinity was adopted generally in the Council of Nicaea in 325CE. It's tempting to think that it's influenced by other pagan beliefs. Theologians try to make it sound technical by referring to the Triune God - One God, with 3 Persons. A book on Theology I’ve got sometimes takes a more recent concept or construct and reads it back into earlier scriptures. So they might then interpret earlier scriptures as referring to newer doctrines that the author never intended. So in Genesis 1, when it refers to God saying "Let us ...", they then re-interpret that as the Trinity talking to itself; the author had probably envisaged the Canaanite pantheon (Elohim, sons of the Most High God El Elyon).

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    First of all let's not fight o.k. Second of all here is an example or two or three.

    1. You have an apple/ 1.skin 2.meat 3.core equals One apple.

    2.You have an egg/ 1.shell 2.clear 3. yolk equals One egg.

    3.A day you have/ 1.morning 2.noon 3.nite One day.

    4.Your arm/ 1. hand 2.forearm 3.upper arm One arm

    5.your torso 1.head 2.chest 3.stomach One body

    6. you have an ice cube 1.mist 2.water 3.ice one cube

    You must know this God will only allow you to see what he wills you to see.You may not see how elementary some teachings are because it may not be meant for you to see.Salvation is built on belief?nnnnnno, you see this to be true.Can you deny these things?Are you the non believer who argues what about the legs?

    the Father (God) pure spirit no form no shape.He is power He is love.He is mercy etc.placed himself in non flesh but in form only and made the world and man.He that same non-formed non-shaped all being omni present being, that manifested himself in a non-fleshly form. In which in this form created the world and man in his image., also placed that same pure spirit that(Yahweh) was made into this non-fleshl all powerfull form(Elohim or word or son) which is still the same spirit of the father(Yahweh or God) that was manifested in the flesh on earth(Yahshua).

    The three are one.It's not like Your fathers father is your father and you are your father none of that crazy talk.Just ask for an understanding,just ask from your heart and he will give it to you.(understanding)

    the word trinity is where in the bible?

    Source(s): the institute of divine meta-physical research.
  • 1 decade ago

    Three things of the same essence, coming from the one source, all eternal in nature. In the sciptures where we read christ says from the beginning of time ...the greek word for this means origin (as well as start depending on context) to originate from God. In the beginning was the word and the word was with....This tells us 1) that christ was with god at the beginning, but (2) God had no beginning. If christ origins are with God and God has no beginning then christ also has no beginning. That is why he says in revelation I am the alpha and omega.

    So that is why some say Christ is God.

    I can see it is interpeted this way and also why others have interpreted it another way. The truth is it is not clear cut, because if it was there would be no debate over it.

    I get confused if god said let us make them in our image, whose image was he talking about, god and all his creatures are spiritual....Would they have had an image?

    If he was talking to angels does that mean angels have the same image of God, just as jesus has the image of God. So is God one big master angel ?

    Jw's believe that arch angel is Jesus.....so maybe Jesus is God.

    You could debate this forever!!!!!!!

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  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    Ok, so the Trinity is not as difficult as many people think it is. Deuteronomy 6:4 clearly states that "The Lord our God is one Lord". Instead of the apple example, look at it this way. I am one person, but I am also a sister, a daughter and an aunt. I am three different forms but one entity. God is the Almighty One. Isaiah 44:6 says "I (God) am the first and the last;and beside me there is no God." Jesus is God manifested in the flesh. Matthew 1:23 says "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call him Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." And as for the Holy Ghost, it is the Spirit of God which dwells within us. 2 Corinthians 3:17 says "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." Jesus himself sain in John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

    When the Bible mentions Father, Son and Spirit together, it is never for the purpose of implying that there are seperate persons in the Godhead. In fact, the salutations often reference God as manifest in Jesus, without reference to the Spirit. If God were actually a three-fold entity of persons, all of the salutations would be three-fold. If you need more scriptures, I could go on for days. If you would just read the Bible for yourself, you would see the truth.

    Ok, you know what, I do know the truth because I do read the Bible. I'm the only one who has actually given more than one scriptural reference. You don't have to think what I say is true. That's fine. I'm sorry if I was rude by saying what I said. I did not mean to offend you. I am just trying to make a point.

  • 1 decade ago

    The organization admits that Jesus is a god, right? But wait "I am the LORD, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).

    “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me," (Isaiah 44:6).

    How can that be?

    There is only one God

    The first step is to establish how many Gods exist: one! Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22; 46:9; 47:8; John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:5-6; Gal. 4:8-9

    "I am the LORD, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).

    “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me," (Isaiah 44:6).

    "I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God, (Isaiah 55:5).

    the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God. Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self aware, the third person of the Trinity.

    There is, though, an apparent separation of some functions among the members of the Godhead. For example, the Father chooses who will be saved (Eph. 1:4); the Son redeems them (Eph. 1:7); and the Holy Spirit seals them, (Eph. 1:13).

    A further point of clarification is that God is not one person, the Father, with Jesus as a creation and the Holy Spirit is a force (Jehovah's Witnesses). Neither is He one person who took three consecutive forms, i.e., the Father, became the Son, who became the Holy Spirit. Nor is God the divine nature of the Son (where Jesus had a human nature perceived as the Son and a divine nature perceived as the Father (Oneness theology). Nor is the Trinity an office held by three separate Gods (Mormonism).

    The word "person" is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, say "you," "yours," "me," "mine," etc. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities

  • 1 decade ago

    This is why I don't believe the Bible is from God. Other than the fact that there is absolutely no proof it is from God, all you Christians throw scriptures and illustrations at each other, while resolving nothing.

    The Bible, by it's very nature virtually insures as many interpretations as readers.

    It's a hoot watching all you "believers" hurl "proof" at each other from a book none of you can prove is of divine origin, or inspired. It's full of contradictions and mistakes.

    It amazes me that you cannot see the futility in this, as you screech Bible verse at each other.

    It's like mud wrestling. No point, but fun to watch.

    Prove the Bible is true.

    RUBBER SOULS comment is a perfect example. He says: "If the trinity were true, it should be clearly and consistently presented in the Bible. Why? Because, as the apostles affirmed, the Bible is God’s revelation of himself to mankind. And since we need to know God to worship him acceptably, the Bible should be clear in telling us just who he is."

    Obviously, many people here have read the same things you have and come to an entirely different conclusion.

    The Bible is clear on nothing.

    The fact the smoking is wrong is not "clearly and consistently presented in the Bible." Why do Jehovah's Witnesses believe it's wrong? Because you interpret it that way. No one else does.

  • Tim
    Lv 6
    1 decade ago

    First off, let me say that all analogies of the Triune God will fall short. It is not possible for us to fully explain an supernatural, infinite being by natural, finite means. That is illogical.

    What I can say is that the Bible does make it pretty clear that 1) there is a God, 2) that God the Father and God the Son are one, 3) that the Holy Spirit is separate from either God the Father or God the Son, 4) that Jesus himself says that there is a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit that should all be treated as God (ie- given worship, etc).

    Now, I am not saying I fully grasp the concept myself. Theologians much smarter than I have struggled with this. But I think it is safe to say that the Trinitarian, or more accurately, the Triune view of God is the most scripturally accurate.

  • 1 decade ago

    The biggest reason you guys don't understand the Trinity is because you don't understand yourselves.

    We are a trinity in our own self - truly the image (Genesis 1:26-27) of our triune God!

    1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you WHOLLY; and I pray God your whole SPIRIT and SOUL and BODY be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    There are some Christians that do not quite know how to expain this either... and they give you examples that seem to explain the trinity... and they DO show that VERY MUCH of creation is made from a blend of three parts.

    You mentioned an apple... all fruit is 3 parts, so is an egg... 3 parts to space length, width, height, 3 parts to time, past, present, future. 3 states to water, solid, liquid, gas, Light has 3 properties intensity, frequency, polarization, light consists of 3 colors yellow, red, blue... those 3 primary colors give us all the rest of the colors .. 3 spaces of land, water, air.... there are many many more! Not only are we triune in make-up, but we are triune in dimensions. The world is 3-d. Why is everything triune?

    If you truly want an example that will explain it to you, then here's one:

    Smith family: Mary, Jon, Bob... each one separately is still a Smith, yet together they are ONE Smith unity.... just like the Hebrew word "echad" means in Deut 6:4.

    1 Corinthians 12:12

    For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

    You need to have the Holy Spirit to understand!

    Let Him in!

    1 Corinthians 2:14

    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    1 Corinthians 12:3

    Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

    _________

    edit to reply to questioner!

    You see it DOES make sense! The Son is NOT the Father is NOT the Holy Spirit. They are distinct like Mary, Jon, and Bob. God (the unit) did not die, but the part in the form of Jesus DID!

  • 1 decade ago

    Trying to explain the trinity is exceedingly difficult. For starters many people who defend the trinity doctrine haven't actually read it. It asserts that all three separate entities are equal, none being greater, none being lessor.

    While apple peal, meat, and core or seeds may make an apple, each one by itself is not equal or the same as each other one.

    It is especially difficult to explain in terms of the Bible since it's concept is not only not there, the concept is refuted. Jesus (one leg of the supposed trinity) himself said that the father (another leg of that supposed trinity) is greater than he (Jesus) was. Get it? NOT equal.

    No trinity at least not in Jesus' teachings. However, many trinities in Babylonish religions.

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