Are atheists conflicted about zionism?
For all their attacks on fundamentalist christians they virtually never mention it,even though it's the main fundamentalist agenda and their main point of political influence. Instead atheists just go on about long-dead issues like school prayer or whatever. Lately they've been mentioning Huckabee a lot,but not a word about his views on Palestine. Is there something ultra-sensitive about christian zionism for atheists? The reason I ask is,you would think it would be their main point of concern regarding the rise of fundamentalism - which correlated with vast increases in "aid" - mostly military - for the occupation of Palestine. So - be sincere - what are atheists thinking of here? Are you impressed by American Jews but appalled by the situation in Palestine,hence conflicted? Or is it something else? I would sincerely like to know. Thank you.
Please,Allergic,we get enough of this propaganda off the mass media. Those villages in 1948 were not an army and they were not attacking anyone. They were attacked by Jews. As to your word-play on "right to exist' i believe Palestinians have a right to exist. Nobody is harming Jews in new York State. Or Toronto. or melbourne.
- Anonymous1 decade agoFavorite Answer
Perhaps many atheists are urbanites and very liberal; if so,they are likely to have a lot of Jewish friends. And most jews - although don't use the word "zionist" are in their assertion that they "support Israel's right to exist" which amounts the same thing. So many atheists probably are conflicted; they are appalled by Israel's human rights record but enthusiastic about jews in general,often exhibiting a fairly exaggerated idea of their contributions to U.S. society.
- Laptop Jesus 3.9Lv 71 decade ago
I generally respond TO questions and issues about Palestine rarely come up on here. I'm not sure why. Perhaps because people see it as a political issue and not a religious one.
I have brought up the ridiculous amount of aid that the USA spends on Israel, but that's not quite the same thing.
I think many things, like school prayer and stem cell research, impact us directly and daily. When things are "far away" from us, geographically (Iraq, Palestinians) they tend to be out of mind, as it were. In addition, the situation in Palestine is much more layered. It is very complex and, unlike school prayer, there isn't an easy solution. Since this format tends to make talking about very complex matters difficult, this might be another reason why it isn't talked about much here.
In short, it could be any combination of those reasons or...something else entirely. I'm certainly not "impressed by American Jews" or unimpressed with them either. I just think the situation is very complex and I don't have a solution for it. I wish we didn't blindly support Israel, but other than voting against Republicans, I can't do much about it.
- 1 decade ago
I dont know whether to answer in terms of my previous atheism, or my present position of something akin to mysticism (grin)
As an atheist, and defining atheism as one who is intellectually oriented and thus incapable of taking many things on faith..... I think most intellectuals felt sorry for the plight of the Jews during WW2. They also felt a little angst for the fact that everyone knew what was happening to them but no one felt inclined to upset delicate balances (as they saw it) on their behalf. A lot of conflicted guilt.
I think it was inevitable that Zionist expectations were supported by that vast underclass who inevitably feel sympathy for those who are seen as underdogs.
You might as well think that there was no one there before the Jews moved back, as far as any popular concept of Palestine went in the minds of the vast majority of people. A few unwashed Arabs on camels and living in tents. Not very culturally unbiased, racist in fact, a mis-perception also perpetually reinforced by propaganda as it is still useful.
Many of the Allies and sectors of the American economic elite had supported Nazism in its opposition to unions and other threats to corporate control (even in some cases openly supporting suppression of the Jewish intellectuals who were perceived as socialists) they needed to somehow switch horses mid-stream in the mass consciousness.
Now add another factor, the perception that there was a need to control middle eastern oil, and the establishment of a Zionist state could kill two birds with one stone, increasing western military dominance and control of the region while at the same time appearing to be concerned with the human condition by giving the Jews a homeland.
Now that radical Islam is sweeping the world, I would guess that the powers that be are glad they played it out the way they did, Im sure they still wield all the strings, and dont intend to let Islam get stronger. They are making a lot of money by keeping the region subdued. They may influence islamic perceptions more than we realize just as they control Western institutionaized religions. The fundies are a tool not a power.
Net result, the economic elite still on top, a new group of victims to rape, and now the victims can all fight one another and remained divided and easily controlled. What a sad day it would be, my mystical side tells me, if the Jews and Arabs opened their arms and hearts to one another, and threw out the 'carpetbaggers'the 'Greeds' the 'eaters of the fat' who like vampires are sucking the blood of the people and the earth.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Even Israel is conflicted about Zionism. Their newspapers have far livelier discussions than ours.
I am anti-Zionist, and appalled at Christian Zionism. I've stated it often here.
The Jews I know where I live are not Zionists and feel no connection to the fabricated state of Israel.
Most American Jews are not Zionists, to my knowledge, but are browbeaten by the AJC, ADL and AIPAC. The Forward Newspaper is independent of such thought.
www.haaretz.com is a fine example of a Tel Aviv newspaper that has the discussions going.
And then there are people in Israel such as Uri Avnery, of Gush Shalom, who heads a peace movement with a Palestinian state as a goal.Source(s): Atheist
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- Anonymous1 decade ago
The Atheists you speak of are extremists who only care about bashing the Christians simply because they are such a popular religion. I honestly have no opinion on the American elections as I am Canadian and do not care as much as if there was a Canadian election (obviously). I also don't care much for war or military conflicts so this occupation of Palestine doesn't mean much to me. Another factor that greatly influences the reasoning behind why I don't keep up with the news is that my satellite is dead and I only get two (both are not news) channels.
- numbnuts222Lv 71 decade ago
No, not conflicted, I am appalled by fundamentalist Zionism.
I think the Israeli state is a fait-accompli and can not be dismantled but their continuing thwarting of a settled Palestinian state is self damaging, not to mention for peace in the region.
- 1 decade ago
I dislike all religions. Religion is the main cause of the problem over there. If humans can't see each other as humans and want to kill each other then let them. I don't care for Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism or Buddhism or whatever. Just humans making up blather. I don't care for the term Zionism either. Many jews don't care for it either. It was brought into context by the European Jews who were brought into Israel.
- ~~Birdy~~Lv 71 decade ago
A lot of American Jews are opposed to Zionism, but you probably already knew that. That aside, in answer to your question, I'll bet you'll get a variety of responses from Atheists in regard to Zionism.
- Pull My FingerLv 71 decade ago
Well, self-described Zionists define Zionism a form of nationalism and self determination for the state of Israel. I have no qualms with that basic idea. I have no criticisms of Judaism that I wouldn't (as an atheist) apply to any other religion.
If you'll forgive me, I'll drop the term "Zionism," which is loaded with all kinds of associations, and just talk about the relationship between Israel and Judaism.
Israel has every right to exist according to the borders it claimed in (I think) 1948. Beyond that, anyone can compare the borders of Israel as drawn up originally and where their borders are now and make a determination as to who has infringed on whose land. Put simply, Israel demonstrates criminal and jingoist behavior which has the effect of destabilizing the Middle East. Just remember, they do it with the unwavering support of the US.
Conflating Judaism and the state of Israel isn't very helpful. Israel does it to motivate its citizenry to support its policies or to silence detractors by confusing criticism of Israeli policy with anti-Semitism. Beyond that, the two things (Judaism and Israeli foreign policy) are entirely separate.
*Edit* -- "allergic to morning:" Sure. Exactly the way Europeans in North America appropriated land "defending" itself from the attacks of the indigenous population.
Allergic to morning: My facts aren't wrong. Palestine attacked Israel the way that the North Vietnamese "attacked" the US -- as an act of self-defense. Israel has offered to grant Palestine statehood several times in name only -- they don't want Palestine to actually have any of the rights of a state. That's why Palestine has declined. You can go through UN decisions on Israel and Palestine and see what the global community thinks. It's the US and Israel against the world.
- skepsisLv 71 decade ago
No. it's YOU who have the hangup. Israel is the fundamentalists' hobby. They don't control the Knesset or the Israeli military, so they can only watch and cheer when their "side" is winning. The real danger is at home. Fundamentalists try every trick they can think of to push science out of the classroom and public policy. The dumbing down of American education and public discourse is a serious danger to America, and that includes foreign policy.