fellow LDS: ever heard of "17 POINTS OF THE TRUE CHURCH" ?
i was helping the missionaries do tracting when they gave me this small card that contains aspects that a true church would have. and they told me that it was written by non-members of the church. for those who havent seen it, here are the points:
1. Christ organised the church (eph 4:11-14)
2. must bear the name of Jesus Christ (eph 5:23)
3. must have a foundation of apostles and prophets (eph 2:19-20)
4. must have the same organisation as Christ's church (eph 4:11-14)
5. must claim divine authority (heb 5:4-10)
6. must have no paid ministry (isa 45:13 & 1 peter 5:2)
7. must baptise by immersion (matt 3:13-16)
8. must bestow the gift of the holy ghost by the laying of hands (acts 8:14-17)
9. must practice divine healing (mark 3:14-15)
10. must teach that God and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct individuals (john 17:11 & 20:17)
11. must teach that God and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bone (luke 24:36-39 & acts 1:9-11)
12. the officers must be called of God (heb 5:4, exodus 28:1 & 40:13-16)
13. must claim revelation from God (amos 3:7)\
14. must be a missionary church (matt 28:19-20)
15. must be a restored church (acts 3:19-20)
16. must practice baptism for the dead (1 cor 15:16 & 29)
17. by their fruits ye shall know them (matt 7:20)
what amazed me the most was the fact that the people who wrote this weren't actually LDS. so im wondering whether they have joined the church now or not.
but it's really amazing how all of these points, i believe, pertain to what we believe and follow as latter-day saints.
plastic punk - yeah well, that's true. but at the end of the day no one's forcing them to believe, those who wouldn't take the trouble to investigate it, or not take trouble to bow in prayer and ask the Lord for his testimony. oh well....
forever young - please, go on....
it's not like your offending someone, feel free to argue :) your points interest me, ive checked the verses, and it seem good to me.
yehaw - goodness gracious!
- Yoda's DuckLv 61 decade agoFavorite Answer
Did the Elders tell you how this list came about?
A group of guys in the same college dorm were talking about religion, and how Christianity was so divers. They decided to go through the New Testament and write down all these "markers" for His church... One of the guys had a photographic memory (which helped), and they'd all read a chapter or 2, and write on a mobile chalkboard the points they found in their reading..... They filled both sides of the chalkboard.
Once they got al the way through the NT, the guy with the photographic memory went through everything on the chalkboard and refined it down to the 17 points.
Years later, after they'd all finished their education and moved on, one of the men started taking the discussions. He went to church with them, and discovered another of the guys from this group was in the ward!!!
I don't know how many were in the original group or how many eventually were baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but at least these two did.
- sunnyannieLv 51 decade ago
Yes, I had heard about these. I picked up a card with them on at the Temple bookshop.
And sorry, you guys, but unfortunately I don't think they're that good a witnessing tool. Many of the references are good, but some of them are a bit tenuous, some are open to interpretation, etc.
I know it's no fun when a member disagrees with you, and I should be supporting the home team, but I remember being all excited seeing this card, then getting home, looking up the verses and thinking that it wasn't that strong an argument.
There is far better scriptural evidence that this is the true church, and evidence elsewhere too. I love "Are Mormons Christians" by Stephen Robinson - I wish every anti-Mormon on here would read it.
I do think 1 Corinthians 15:29 is evidence that the church is true, though. It demonstrates that baptism for the dead was practiced only 40 years after Christ's resurrection - but there is only one church on the Earth today still practising it.
- racLv 71 decade ago
I have heard two or three different versions of this scenario. One is that the writers were from a pretigious eastern university. Another was that the three friends separated and then years later reconnected to find out that they had all joined the LDS church. Whether the two versions are actually the same, I don't know.
I could add many scriptures to the list to strengthen the statements above, but it is still good.
- How do you think about the answers? You can sign in to vote the answer.
- all starLv 41 decade ago
There is an audio cassette by Floyd Weston that tells this story. It is really entertaining to listen to. Some critics will point out that the story is fabricated. However, whether or not you believe the story, the fact still stands that this church passes the Biblical test.
- Cookie777Lv 61 decade ago
I like the apostles and prophets one. Also, it is nice to know that apostles and prophets must have a divine witness of the reality of Jesus Christ as the Son of God.
- Sister blue eyesLv 61 decade ago
2) Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
Sorry bud, but that does not say the church should bear the name of Christ.
4) Eph 4:11-14 doesn't speak of the formal organization of a churchSource(s): I could go on, but wont
- IsoldeLv 71 decade ago
This is interesting. Another good question is what could we add.
18. No passing the plate. (except for seconds at the pot luck)
19. Commit to the Law of Consecration
- 1 decade ago
I, too, am familiar with the '17 points' and the legend behind it -- as I heard it, all who helped create the individual 'points' separately joined the LDS Church on their own.
Haven't thought of those in years, going to bookmark this. Thanks
- 1 decade ago
Yep. There's actually a pretty cool story that goes along with it. A comp. of mine on the mission had a tape of a fireside where the guy who came up with those talked. I can't remember his name, but it was pretty cool. He and some friends came up with this list and he searched for years for a church that fit all of them. Eventually he and one or two of his friends all independently joined the church.