JudasHero asked in Games & RecreationGambling · 1 decade ago

JJ and QQ pre flop (no limit hold em)?

I've been having some trouble with these two starting hands. AA is no problem for obvious reasons and KK is pretty straightforward. If there is more than one caller and A shows up on the flop, chances are someone has it; scrap the hand. Even AK is pretty simple; you either hit top pair or you don't.

I've been having trouble with JJ and QQ. More so with JJ because there are, potentially, 9 cards out there that can make an overpair to it. However, if T or lower shows up, it's a strong hand, and it can generate a lot of chips from opponents calling with nothing but overcards (or smaller pairs). So my question is, how do you feel about QQ and JJ pre-flop? Are you looking to thin the field, possibly even take the pot without seeing a flop by making a big pre flop bet? Would you rather extract value out of it or be cautious by making a small bet? What kind of bets/raises will you call with these hands?

Update:

How many bets/raises would it take for you to fold these hands? How do you play these hands according to position and number of callers? Would you call a re-raise with these hands?

All above questions in relation to pre-flop play.

Also, what do you like to do with these hands in limit games (also take position into consideration please)?

10 Answers

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  • 1 decade ago
    Favorite Answer

    Wow, you're really getting a bang for your buck. Theres like 999999 million questions in this "question".

    "how do you feel about QQ and JJ pre-flop?"

    I feel that is a quality starting hand and i am willing to get QQ in against most oppenents preflop. JJ is very player dependent imo, and i will try to give some examples. Against some bully who raises utg im 3betting 90% of the time. Against a tightish player who raises utg i usually call 60% of the time. The other 40% i 3bet (However, against most decent players they will put you on the type of hand you have right away). Against a LAG player who raises on the CO and im on the button, im raising/calling 70/30. Against a player who raises on the button and im on the blinds im 3 betting 100% of the time. You should be doing this alot already with okay hands like suited connectors and Ax hands because you want him to know that you arent going to be bullied easily. If some tight player utg raises im 3-betting 75% of the time and calling 25% of the time. BTW u you should be 3 betting with trash once in a while, suited connectors once in awhile, okay face cards 50% of the time (KJ), and really good hands 80% of the time. That way, when you 3-bet they cant just say "He must have TT-AA, AK". Instead they should say,"WTF does he have this time."? A good 3-bet is usually 10bb-14bb or 3-4x the preflop raise. Lets say CO raises to 7. A good rerraise/3-bet you should be to 21-28.

    Are you looking to thin the field?

    Duh! With almost every single playable hand you should try to eliminate the field to 3 players max! and preferably 2 players. Im not sure what you mean by "big preflop bet", but you should be betting 3-4x bb with any hand you are raising preflop. The perfect bet imo is 3/1/2x bb and you will see most people doing this. Make this bet with trash-AA if you are thinking of raising preflop. If you are playing at decent stakes you will usually get HU when you make this bet unless you are acting like a complete donk or fish in which case everyone wants to play a pot with you. If someone in front raises you should usually 3 bet. As i said before once in a while you should 3 bet with trash. This is because you want to get paid off more when you actually have a premium hand. When you just 3 -bet really good hands people will know what you have and call with only QQ-AA, AK so basically you will get only better hands to call against observant oppenents.

    You also want to 3-bet because you are building the pot with a hand that is very good and you also want to get max value off of it. Think of it as a value bet. You also take control of the pot and can keep the pot small/big depending on the community cards. You also want to price out hands like 56dd, AK etc.

    "Would you rather extract value out of it or be cautious by making a small bet?"

    Ummmmmmmmm....... you should almost never make small bets. Against almost all decent players you will get raised just because if you really had a good hand you would bet more because they would call a big bet almost as much as they would call a small bet. So basically, you are saying i have a okay hand-not good not bad and if you raise me im bailing out. DONT MAKE SMALL BETS UNLESS YOU HAVE A HAND WHERE YOU WANT TO GET R/R WITH!! Also, you want to stick with big bets (1/2-pot) because you are getting more value off a hand where you want more value and your bluffs are more likely to work when people dont know what kind of hand you have (a bluff, weak hand, or nuts). A lot of times though, a really bad flop will come like QxKc7c (you have jj) and you should check/call or check/fold the flop. So basically either bet 1/2-big or just check (when you flop a worthless hand, are either way behind or way ahead, the pot is getting to big with such a mediocre hand, or you want to induce bluffs from a agressive player.) Rarely will i bet all three streets after i have raised preflop3-bet because usually when people call all 3 streets you are beat. The one time i bet all 3 streets is when flop comes out 2h4hTc. Many times people will call with AT all the way, and even JT if they think you are bluffing busted draws on the river. Youn can get ALOT of value from top pair hands in these situations and you shouldnt pass it up.

    "What kind of bets/raises will you call with these hands?"

    Usually out of position i will fold to a turn r/r against most players if i raised preflop, and bet flop. Its really hard to give a detailed explanation to this because there are just so many situations. Maybe you could post a hand in the add. details and i will give a more detialed answer.

    "How many bets/raises would it take for you to fold these hands? How do you play these hands according to position and number of callers? Would you call a re-raise with these hands?"

    This is also soooo very player dependent. Im not sure if you know this, but a 3-bet is a reraise, just letiin you know. JJ against a tight player i will fold to a 4 bet, but willl always call a reraise (3-bet). Against a loose player i push. If i am in positon against a preflop raiser i am more inclined to call a 3-bet and i will do this 30% of the time. OOP (out of positon) i like to call maybe 10% of the time. This is because it is really hard to play out of positon against a preflop raiser who has control of the pot. Once again, you need to move up if you get more than 2 callers 25% of the time when you raise to 3/1/2x bb. Generally, i am more inclined to muck against action in a mutliway pot and I put less value on my overpair. I am calling a reraise (3 bet) every time UNLESS i know 100% sure that he has AA, KK. Against a loose player i am 4 betting OOP and calling a in positon.

    Wow that was a long answer. Plz plz plz post additional details if you dont understand what i just typed. I also would like to say that this is in context to a 6 max CASH GAME. If you havent started playing cash games thats too ******* bad for you because thats teh only thing i know how to play! BTW did you ever attempt playing .25/.50 online?

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    It's going to depend on some things like position and how the table has been playing.

    I'm not saying that preflop play isn't important because it is. It's not everything in poker though. Much more money is won and lost postflop and is where many players flat suck. You need to ask yourself what you intend to accomplish with the preflop play. In this situation I would be trying to thin the field and gain information about how my opponents feel about their cards (which should be your goal most of the time anyway). Toss out that 3x-4x BB bet. You do have some playable cards, so why let the limpers get a really cheap look at a flop that could hurt you? If you get raised, now you know that they feel very good about their cards. If it's not an insane bet, call it and go to the flop. Now comes the part that will either get you a good pot or get you smacked. If you've been paying attention to your opponent and have guaged the quality of their cards accurately preflop you should have a good idea if you're dead or not. If you're not dead, make them pay VERY well to see any more cards. Now is not the time to slow play. If you think you're dead, make up your mind what you're going to represent.

    You said that AA, KK, AK are all straightforward. While this is true, you should ask yourself if you play them significantly different preflop than other cards. If you do, then you would be a very easy read after playing at a table for a bit. If you always go 6xBB with these hands but not with others, then why in the world would anybody call? That is really going to put a damper on how much you make off of premium hands. Mix it up, change gears, don't be predictable. If you are, then your opponents will have a much easier time playing JJ against you than you do against them.

  • 1 decade ago

    QQ is still a top hand, and you should play it similarly to AA or KK. Obviously it's going to get cracked more often, but you can't be too timid with this hand and expect to win a lot. If an ace hits on the flop, I'll usually slow down a lot with QQ, but I'll still bet pretty hard if a king comes up. This is because a person who calls you're raise is almost always going to have an ace so you're likely beat. But if a king comes up, there are fewer pre-flop hands they could call with, and they will likely come over the top if they have AK so you get a lot of info with a big bet.

    JJ is a different situation because it's definitely in that 'middle pair' territory. It's not really even a terrible play (in a ring game) to muck these cards in early position. In late position, I'm just going to call most of the time since there are so many overcards, and anyone raising in will likely have one of them. Don't get me wrong, JJ is a good hand, but it's much more about playing the player with a hand like that.

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    With either hand I am happy to win the blinds and you want to thin the field, as mentioned if a K or A come up that can be a scare because you might have allowed an A 7 to limp in.

    I will make my standard 3 x BB raise (more if there has already been a raise). If I am re raised I am not afraid to fold either hand more so if I am re raised on my re raise that most likely means AA or KK. If after the flop you have top pair bet the hand hard.

    My advice is to play either hand aggressively, but do not be afraid to fold pre flop or on the flop.

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  • 1 decade ago

    Wow...I got tired reading all of your questions. So I am just going to answer some.

    I raise pre flop with QQ or JJ unless it was raised before action got to me...then I would probably just call because these hands make me feel like a chicken sh*t for some reason. But I do like to push out weaker hands before the flop because there are alot of hands that could easily crack these. When flop comes, if there are overs I will place a value bet. This depends on my opponents though, I have to take into consideration their play style and chip stacks (which will determine the amount of the value bet). If I get raised, unless I have a good tell on the opponent, I am going to muck them.

    It is always so sweet to trip up on the flop. I LOVE IT. I also love when, say you had QQ, and no over come on the flop so you think you are pretty good, but sneaky me stayed in with 88 and tripped up on the flop. That is something you always have to watch for. Trips always come when you least expect it! =]

    Now wish me luck. I am off to the casino for Halloween play!

  • 1 decade ago

    I generally play mid pairs aggressively pre-flop in order to thin the field but am also ready to fold them if there is an aggressive reraise or a bad flop with too many overcards. You definitely don't want to just limp in and allow weaker pre-flop hands to draw out on you. You're still a favorite pre-flop hands except for higher pairs which usually are played aggressively so you can usually spot them.

  • 1 decade ago

    i treat Q-Q and J-J very differently in no-limit games

    with Q-Q, i will slowplay pre-flop if i feel i can't get more money out of my opponent, and raise for value, because it is fairly easy to identify when you are beat(especially if you raise pre-flop), and the only hands against which you are not a significant favorite are A-K, K-K, and A-A...and unless there is serious evidence that the only possibility is that i am against one of those 3 hands, i am going with Q-Q pre-flop

    with J-J, i will raise first in pre-flop every time and look to thin out the field, because you are more likely beaten if you take a flop multiple ways with the J-J, and also if a Q pops out and that is the only overcard, it is more difficult to get away from...also, now you are in a coinflip with A-Q and K-Q also, so there are more hands you need to get out to make yourself a big favorite in the hand, so that's why i like to thin things out with this hand, and also why i am a lot more willing to throw it away in a marginal spot

    in limit games, i treat these hands exactly the same, because they have virtually the same value in limit...i will raise and 3-bet with these hands 100% of the time

  • 1 decade ago

    all in and take the pot. JJ and QQ is good for all in. poker is the game of skill and luck. If you have no luck, even AA can't win only to be beaten by a lucky person who has nothing but lower hand with the help from those five cards.

  • Zippy
    Lv 5
    1 decade ago

    Obviously you haven't tapped into the power of the queen!!!!

    Queens have been good to me Jacks are a little less appealing due to Domination which may have its place in Sex but avoid it in poker

    Source(s): Gambler
  • 1 decade ago

    you put way too much thought into that

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