Who would between an even match with a Jiu Jitzu Martial Artist and a Kickboxer?
- judomofoLv 71 decade agoFavorite Answer
Man some of these answers are PRICELESS...
Unfortunately this has already been played out over and over again in early "open" and no holds barred matches.
Orlando Weit was probably one of the best Muay Thai practitioners the UFC has ever had. (Aside from Anderson Silva) he fought a fairly scared, inexperienced, unconfident Judoka named Remco Parduel in the second UFC. Unfortunately for Weit, Remco gripped up with him, threw him, and preceded to elbow him onto unconsciousness while in Kesa Katama (head and arm control).
I take it you mean a BJJ artist, and not necessarily a classical Japanese JJ artists.
The poster above's karate sensei probably never really fought a Judoka, or grappler. You find out how quickly you are actually controlled on the ground, and while you may think that "Oh the eyes are open for poking while he is choking me"
You would find quickly a few things:
A: Your eyes are twice as easily poked from that position (a grappler knows how to poke eyes just like anyone else)
B: Your natural reaction is going to be panic, as well as trying to get the appendages choking you off your neck.
C: You have about 8 seconds or so to execute this move.
D: Pain tolerance, unfortunately grapplers have it by the truckload.
E: As they are in complete control of you, they can make you moving or grapping anything very difficult for those 8 seconds you remain conscious.
A pure kickboxer is even more succeptable to takedowns because they are disciplined to throw blows that leave them open for it. Extended kicks, commited strikes, a posture that is standing up, etc.
They don't have to worry about take downs, and when they get hurt they clinch just like boxers. All big recipes for takedown city.
This is one of the reasons Cung Le absolutely dominated in San Shou. Because many of the San Shou guys were just kickboxers coming over to it, they lacked the grappling experience to keep Cung Le at bay, as he threw them mercilessly.
There is always a punchers chance, and it isn't a definate win. But a grapplers ability to take a person down and impose their will has been proven over and over again. And against a pure kickboxer that is more than likely what would happen.
Check out this FAQ, it is pretty well written and disposes of most of the above arguments.
Grappler will beat a pure striker 9 times out 10.
Now classical JJ is different than BJJ, and in that regard I would give the edge to the kickboxer. As most classical JJ guys spend little time sparring, and actually working their technique. They still have the ability to take a guy down, but they do not practice it enough at full speed against a resisting opponent to be effective at it.
There are some classical Japanase JJ schools that do spar, and train every aspect, but they are few and far between.
So a straight up Classical Japanese Ju Jitsu fighter would probably lose to a kickboxer.
But a Judoka, BJJ, Greco or Freestyle wrestler, Sambo, etc. Will probably win most times.
Mirko Cro Cop vs. Fedor Emelienko is also a good example. While Cro Cop has some decent ground skills and take down defense he is still primarily a kickboxer. He had a hard time dealing with Fedor,(Judo,Sambo) similarly with Minotauro Nogeira (BJJ Submission win) who is one of 4 people he has lost to.
To be a good fighter you have to be well rounded, even if you don't know all the submissions, throws and takedowns from those other arts, you need to know how to defend them.
Eye gouges, nut kicks, rakes, etc. Are not means of defense against it.
Keep in mind, yes UFC has certain rules, but that doesn't just limit the strikers, it limits everyone!
Who has a better opportunity to poke someone's eyes? The guy on the bottom with his arm movement limited who is eating punches in the face. Or the guy on top, who has the guy on bottom under complete control, can reign punches at will and if wanted could gouge with impunity.
Also, I would seriously be careful with trying to grab someone's balls or go for their eyes when they are choking you. Otherwise you may find that they decide to hold that choke on for a while even after you are unconscious, and the resulting brain damage might not let you remember what mistake it was you just made.
Similarly reaching up to try to poke an eye when someone is on top controlling you, you could very well find that arm broken, and your eye being poked repeatedly.
Groin kicks, eye pokes/rakes, throat chops, knee kicks aren't exclusively used by the striker or "deadly" practitioner, news flash: EVERYONE KNOWS HOW TO DO IT. And they have just as much experience at it as you. (meaning zero). You don't need to meditate for 2 hours a day, spend 20 minutes holding a stance, or practice the movement 100 times in the air to know how to poke an eye or kick someone's balls. Pretty sure kindergarteners already know how to do that.
Whereas a grappler has put someone's joint to the point of breaking thousands of times against a resisting opponent, so not only do they know how to do that effectively, they could combine those some cheap tricks on you, while completely dominating and controlling you. It is not that they are any less willing to "go there". Or are any less ruthless. These "too deadly to practice" techniques aren't the win all you think they are, and they are moves that ANYONE can do. Your thought that "well I have the ability to be more ruthless since this is a fight" is false. EVERYONE has that ability, it is just whether or not they chose to go there. And if someone is soundly whipping your a*s with no cheap tricks, the chances are the second you pull out a cheap trick, they are going to step their level of aggression and beat you more, and maim or kill you.
Anyway, sorry to go off on a rant on your question. Just that whole "well with no rules, groin shots and eye pokes come into play" argument. Sure they do, but so do weapons. And the other person grappler, striker, untrained, all have the ability to do the same things.
It doesn't take a black belt in Karate to know how to kick someone in the nuts. It does take years of Kung Fu to gouge someone in the eye. Nor does it takes hundreds of hours of hitting a makiwara to know how to chop a throat or kick a knee.
Unfortunately it does take experience doing it to a resisting opponent over and over again to be effective. And you will find quickly under adrenaline, that nut shots won't stop a determined assailant under adrenaline, eyes are very small targets to try to get to against a resisting moving person, throat shots aren't end alls, as many times a person own chin tucking flinch will make it pretty much blocked off.
I could keep going but you get the point, read the FAQ above.
Simple answer 9 times out of 10 pure grappler wins vs. pure striker.Source(s): 20+ years Martial Arts, Former bouncer, Former Armed Services member, bar brawler and former fighter. Current MMA trainer and coach.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
My Ju Jutsu shihan and I were just talking about this last Friday. A striking art like TKD, Karate, Kung Fu, and Muay Thai has the best chance against a locking, throwing, and grappling art like Ju Jutsu. While the JJ fighter will circle and turn an attack against the kickboxer, the kickboxer, if fast enough, can strike with power and shift away without getting captured. If this were a truly even fight, as you specify, standing up the kickboxer would win. Should it go to the ground, however, the kickboxer's weapons (legs and speed) are pretty much out, so the Ju Jutsu fighter would win.Source(s): Discussion with my Ju Jutsu instructor
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Depends on the rules...
no grappling, the kickboxer.
Grappling, but no killing blows, the Jiu Jitsu guy.
Of course, there has to be some rules, or people would get killed. But, it depends entirely on which ones are picked. Each style does well in different situation... Personally, I'd tend to pick the Jiu Jitsu guy, mainly because Jiu Jitsu is a traditional martial "jitsu" and unless we're talking specifically a "Muy Thai" kickboxer, Kickboxing is not.
- Mary-louLv 44 years ago
I've read a ton of stories of old Golden Gloves boxers knocking out and defending themselves from muggers. Older boxers have beaten younger boxers plenty of times Mike Tyson was beaten by a much older Buster Douglas, George Foreman beat a much younger Michael Moorer, retained his belt fighting off much younger competetion, Julio Cesar Chavez, Hector Commacho, all had great careers and runs against much younger opponents. Despite what people say, I have seen Mohammed Ali shadowbox just playing around, and even as old as he is, with parkinsons, I still believe he would put a would be mugger's lights out. But I do agree with the stress that competeting at a high level in a combat sport has on the body, by nature they are going to have more injuries than a hobbyist or life long Martial Artist who doesn't push his body to the limits that a professional athlete has to. At 65 someone who has done Martial Arts their whole life is going to be banged up sure, but he will still have greater mobility and health than any professional athlete who had to compete at a combat or even high impact sport. (Say basketball, football, or soccer). Hell you will be hard pressed to find many former high level athletes older than 65 or 70. So there is definitely a quality of life and health that doing Martial Arts allows, I am not an old timer but I am pretty dinged up, I know most older Martial Artists have bad shoulders/knees, general joint issues, arthritis in the hands, etc. In the end, when it comes down to do it we can do what we need to do... now the 2 or 3 weeks of soreness, pain, and limping afterwards....that is just nature. Just my two cents...
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- 1 decade ago
if its guy only trained in kickboxing vs. a guy only trained in jiu-jitsu then it really depends on how well the kickboxer can defend the takedown. If he can defend the takedown well then he'll have a great chance on KO'ing the BJJ guy without much problem. If he can't defend the takedown and only knows kickboxing then chances are he'll be clueless once on the ground and will be submitted with relative ease.
watch UFC 1 to get a good idea.
- 1 decade ago
It is a toss up but one of the things one of my first karate instructors told me and believed was that a karate guy, kick boxer or boxer would never beat a Judo or Ju-Jitsu stylist at their own game-so don't play it. This man was a three time Japanese national champion in both kata and fighting and when someone of that skill and stature says something like that it has to tell you something.
If you notice in the MMA they don't allow groin shots, strikes to the neck and throat, rabbit punches, head butts, open handed strikes to the eyes, ear claps, fish hooking, gouging and biting. Next time you watch a match on television look at the holds/chokes as they are being applied and how vulnerable the person applying the hold is to these kind of techniques that are not allowed.
I have taken that piece of advice to heart over the years and often times it has made the difference. You never fight their fight or try to beat them at their own game-you fight to win and fight your fight. Whoever is better at doing this would most likely be the winner.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Standup would be close. Jiu Jitzu would win hands down if it went to the ground. Would probably win hands down anyway.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
with k1 rules,the kickboxer would win.
with mma rules,the jiu jitusu fighter would win
in a street fight,the jiu jitsu fighter would win
so the score is 2-1 for jiu-jitsu
- Dustin BLv 51 decade ago
If JJ guy doesn't get kicked in the head he'd have no problem breaking something on the kickboxer ala Royce Gracie.
- 1 decade ago
I think both of them are good but it depends how they masters each other weaknesses to hit them knock out in kick boxing & fatally dead in jujitsu.