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ok im not an athiest, and im not christian or any other religion, and i dont believe in god. i am just a person who questions everything and i cant help it but something that doesnt sound logical to me i cant believe in it. and thats what "god" is to me an illogical "thing" most people say they believe because they have talked with god, or have had htere prayers answered. and i have countlessly prayed for a simple sign to show that there is a god out there and i never have my prayers answered therefore its another reason for me to not believe. but earlier i read this story about a NDE (near death experience) and a man had actually died for 15 minutes and went to heaven and talked with god and when he told god he wished to stay in heaven and not return to earth god showed him his mother and how destroyed she would be and he decided to stay for her. and he claims to have been an athiest his whole life and never read a bible, and after his "experience" with god he woke up. continued.....

Update:

and i dont know what to do. i know most people who answer this will tell me to go with god but i dont know, im still not sure he has never been there for me and i dont think i should be there for him. im confused!

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    >> i am just a person who questions everything and i cant help it but something that doesn't sound logical to me i cant believe in it. and thats what "god" is to me an illogical "thing" most people say they believe because they have talked with god, or have had there prayers answered.

    Did you ever ask them what they've prayed for? Was it something simple like "let me pass this math test" or was it something more complicated like: "please let my amputee d brother grow back his missing limb"?

    I can setup many situations where I could "pray" for something and it'd come true. For instance, I could pray for a new job. But if I don't send out resumes and do interviews, clearly that's not going to happen. Has anyone ever prayed for something, and then accomplished the goal without helping along the "prophecy" in some manner themselves?

    ---- I decided to jump into the conversation here since this is were our views may disseminate. There is a difference between a prayer that has been answered versus a prayer that has "come true." The problem is that people who do not believe in God expect that if God existed and they decided to try out praying as a means of getting proof of His existence they would get their answer in the form of some material or tangible substance. God answers all prayer the problem is He is not going to answer that prayer always with what you expect the outcome of that prayer should be. (i.e. I need a job) God will answer your prayers in respect with what is best for you not with what you want. Yes He can help you get a job, but that doesn't mean you sit back and do nothing. Maybe the help God gives you is for a particular job, maybe of the job's you applied for He helped you get the job you wanted the most by putting something on the heart or mind of the person hiring that makes you stand out above the rest like an intuition, gut feeling, etc. The other aspect of answering prayer is that you need to know that sometimes the answer God gives besides yes is no or just wait, meaning now is not the time. Like I said God is going to answer it with what He believes is best for you, not what you believe is best for you, which means that often times His solution to the problem is a lot different than yours. His solution is going to be more long-term related not short-term, which is what our prayers are usually geared around. Hope that makes sense. My point being is if you don't believe in God then you are not going to get your answer or proof of His existence through something that was designed as a tool for someone who does believe. Without a belief in God you lack the knowledge of who God truly is meaning you will understand the reasoning or logic behind His answer to your prayer, which leads into the next point of the discussion.

    >> and i have countlessly prayed for a simple sign to show that there is a god out there and i never have my prayers answered therefore its another reason for me to not believe.

    This is the heart of the question that I get frequently asked: "What would be a sign to me that god exists"? My answer usually is along the lines of something that breaks the theory of naturalism - that is, everything in this world can be accounted for according to other things that exist and occur naturally. If god existed, I would suspect something like an apparition appearing to me that I could measure and determine that it is not caused from an outside source, or even a simpler test - change the fundamental 'laws' of our universe. Accept nothing less as your personal "sign".

    ----As I said previously if you don't believe in God you will not believe in the things of God.

    "Two men sitting at a table. One of the men is a Christian and the other is an Atheist. They are debating the existence of God. The Atheist says if God exists, then give me a sign. If He would just give me a sign then I will believe in Him. Come on God, alls you have to do is give me a simple sign. Knock over this glass on the table and I will believe. Come on God, just knock it over and I will believe you exist. The glass doesn't move, disgusted the man suddenly gets up bumps the table and the glass falls over."

    Draw your own conclusions from the story, but I am fairly confident that I can predict the response that either men would have to the same experience and I guarantee they would both be different. You say that for proof of God's existence you would need a supernatural event that cannot be explained through natural means. Two fundamental problems with this belief. a belief that pigeon holes you into thinking God doesn't exist. One I would argue that there are things that occur around you on a daily basis that cannot be explained in natural terms, the problem is when someone who doesn't believe in God sees these things they don't attribute them to something they don't believe in but rather something that just doesn't have a natural explanation at this point. My second problem is that if God created the natural realm then He should be able to work within that realm to accomplish His purpose. If He created the fundamental laws of the universe then He should be able to show proof of His existence through those fundamental laws, which He has, and not outside of them.

    Like I said it all comes down to what you believe. If you do not believe in God then you will not believe in the things of God.

    >> but earlier i read this story about a NDE (near death experience) and a man had actually died for 15 minutes and went to heaven and talked with god and when he told god he wished to stay in heaven and not return to earth god showed him his mother and how destroyed she would be and he decided to stay for her. and he claims to have been an athiest his whole life and never read a bible, and after his "experience" with god he woke up.

    NDE's are notoriously unscientific, and biased. I'll bet you I could "see god" when I'm doped up on some nitrous oxide too - doesn't mean that god is actually there. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/effects_of_... )

    ---- Of course they are unscientific and biased. Most experiences we have are unscientific and especially biased. On the same token of your argument, being doped up on nitrous oxide or having a NDE doesn't mean God isn't there. What a person believes or is willing to believe will usually determine their perception of the things that are happening around them. Ever notice the difference in how a person of faith describes an experience versus a person who doesn't believe. The person of faith will describe the experience in terms of emotion or their senses where the person who has no faith will often describe the experience in chemical reactions and bodily functions. It only makes sense that a person who has no faith in the supernatural is only left with explanations that can only be defined in the natural realm. If you don't believe in God then you will not believe in the things of God...this reduces your ability to explain things leaving you only the natural realm to work in excluding yourself from anything that happens supernaturally.

    >> and i don't know what to do. i know most people who answer this will tell me to go with god but i don't know, im still not sure he has never been there for me and i don't think i should be there for him.

    Quite frankly, those who tell you to "go with god" typically have some form of agenda, which I personally, don't agree with. If you choose to believe in god, you need to come to terms with it yourself, not through convincing and argument.

    ----- I am curious as to what kind of agenda you believe these people have? Are there agendas really any different that your agenda? They want you to believe in God because that is what they believe is the truth and they have a deep desire for you not to end up in hell for eternity. An atheist wants to convince you God doesn't exist and you should live your life according to what you believe is the prudent thing to do.

    There is one thing we absolutely agree with, but maybe not for the same reason. If you do decide to believe in God, you will need to come to terms with it yourself. This is a journey that's ultimate destiny is determined by you and you alone. But, I can tell you this, in your search for God if you say with your mouth God show me a sign while thinking at the same time God doesn't exist you will get your answer. Like I have said many times, if you don't believe in God then you will not see/believe the things of God. You don't believe God exists then how will you eve believe He was with you when you needed Him. Ever had a time in your life that seemed hopeless, yet something deep down tells you its going to be ok and then it was? Ever had a moment where it seemed like everything perfectly fell into place? You were at the right place at the right time and things just seemed to happen that normally wouldn't have happened? There are many instances in our lives where things like this happen, someone who doesn't believe in God will only look to natural means in regards to their explanation. Someone who believes in God will see the His works both in the natural and supernatural.

    >> im confused!

    Think critically, just as you're doing just now. I'm here to assure you that your approach to the problem is the correct one - be skeptical, demand proof. You'll go much farther in life thinking for yourself and using skills of logic and reason to prove the truths of life about you. I do hope though that you investigate several of the claims made by NDEers and know that anytime they have an NDE, it's not actually when they're of a sound mind.

    -----I agree, there is nothing wrong with thinking critically about this or being skeptical, but until you actually understand who God is you will never understand how God works. If you only limit Him to what you believe is the nature of God and how God should work then you will miss who He really is and how He actually works. I also agree that there is nothing wrong with logic and reason as long as you don't limit yourself to only what you believe is logical and reasonable. When you do you only create an intellectual smoke screen that blinds you from truth. Remember truth is absolute. It doesn't require you to believe in it to exist. If God exists, which I believe He does, and if He is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent then His existence is far beyond anything we can imagine with the limited logic we have. Logic would tell me this, for the sake of argument let's say that in the knowledge we have there is no absolute proof of God's existence, and of all the knowledge in the universe our total knowledge equates to a whopping 1% of that, then the chances that there is empirical proof of God's existence is contained with in that other 99% of total knowledge. Alls I ask is that when looking into this you do not limit yourself to simple logic and reason...sometimes the answer can come to us through emotion and experience for which logic and reason often have no place.

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    >> ok im not an athiest, and im not christian or any other religion, and i dont believe in god.

    As much as you may not like the label, you are an atheist by your last statement.

    ---

    Atheist - a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

    ---

    You're the latter, not the former. If you'd like to clarify the point where you are unsure if god could be knowable, you could be an "atheistic agnostic".

    >> i am just a person who questions everything and i cant help it but something that doesnt sound logical to me i cant believe in it. and thats what "god" is to me an illogical "thing" most people say they believe because they have talked with god, or have had htere prayers answered.

    Did you ever ask them what they've prayed for? Was it something simple like "let me pass this math test" or was it something mor complicated like: "please let my amputeed brother grow back his missing limb"?

    I can setup many situations where I could "pray" for something and it'd come true. For instance, I could pray for a new job. But if I don't send out resumes and do interviews, clearly that's not going to happen. Has anyone ever prayed for something, and then accomplished the goal without helping along the "prophecy" in some manner themselves?

    >> and i have countlessly prayed for a simple sign to show that there is a god out there and i never have my prayers answered therefore its another reason for me to not believe.

    This is the heart of the question that I get frequently asked: "What would be a sign to me that god exists"? My answer usually is along the lines of something that breaks the theory of naturalism - that is, everything in this world can be accounted for according to other things that exist and occur naturally. If god existed, I would suspect something like an apparition appearing to me that I could measure and determine that it is not caused from an outside source, or even a simpler test - change the fundamental 'laws' of our universe. Accept nothing less as your personal "sign".

    >> but earlier i read this story about a NDE (near death experience) and a man had actually died for 15 minutes and went to heaven and talked with god and when he told god he wished to stay in heaven and not return to earth god showed him his mother and how destroyed she would be and he decided to stay for her. and he claims to have been an athiest his whole life and never read a bible, and after his "experience" with god he woke up.

    NDE's are notoriously unscientific, and biased. I'll bet you I could "see god" when I'm doped up on some nitrous oxide too - doesn't mean that god is actually there. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nitrous_ox... )

    >> and i dont know what to do. i know most people who answer this will tell me to go with god but i dont know, im still not sure he has never been there for me and i dont think i should be there for him.

    Quite frankly, those who tell you to "go with god" typically have some form of agenda, which I personally, don't agree with. If you choose to believe in god, you need to come to terms with it yourself, not through convincing and argument.

    >> im confused!

    Think critically, just as you're doing just now. I'm here to assure you that your approach to the problem is the correct one - be skeptical, demand proof. You'll go much farther in life thinking for yourself and using skills of logic and reason to prove the truths of life about you. I do hope though that you investigate several of the claims made by NDEers and know that anytime they have an NDE, it's not actually when they're of a sound mind.

    Best of luck!

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    I've had a near death experience as well, and I didn't see a god. In fact, I saw a dimly lit cave and a huge wolf that I immediately recognized as Fenrir Wolf of Norse Mythology. The only interaction we had at the time was that I put my hand on his shoulder and he wrapped his paw around my arm. That was it in its entirety.

    Do I believe in Fenrir as a literal being? No. Of course not.

    Point is, NDE's are natural phenomenon brought on by trauma or overload that pushes the brain into an abnormal form of functioning.

  • 1 decade ago

    I would submit, not as a fact but just for your consideration, that there is no way of verifying what that man really experienced. Maybe it was nothing more than a dream or some biologically caused hallucination. Maybe subconscious wish fulfillment coupled with fear of death. Who really knows? Science has shown that powerful hormones are released in the traumatize brain. As to what to believe that is your journey and for you to decide, not because someone tells you what to believe.

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  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    You know what u know. You are who u are. We cannot tell you what to believe or not to believe. Loved ones in my own life are from many aspect - Christian, Atheist, Catholic, Orthodox, Agnostic, I consider myself maybe a gnostic christian (if that's even possible), but we all have a common thread of love. We are conditioned by what our parents teach us (typically), so questioning your faith or lack of, is the greater good & the show of courage. It's easy to fall in, and conform. It's difficult & brave to stand up & question what is offered with no proof whatsoever.

    But one day, when u are looking at a sunset, or are just happy with your family, maybe on CHRIST-MASS day or over HOLY DAYS, maybe u can feel that inner warmth of unity. And the glory and divinity of a Loving Creator(s). All is possible with God.:o]

    Source(s): Go to artakiane.com, you'll love it! If that's not proof -I don't know what is!
  • 4 years ago

    speaking only for myself, after I say homosexuality is familiar/problem-free i'm deciphering the evidence. The bible doesn't even be certain into the equation because it truly is of no extra result to me than a cracker jack container, and for that reason purely isn't area of the evidence. i'm neither attempting at authentic bible scholarship, an attempt at reinterpretation, or an attempt to rationalize sin. My god's haven't any challenge with homosexuality, i do no longer somewhat care in a roundabout way if the christian god has difficulty with it ;)

  • 1 decade ago

    God always, (as a gentleman) leaves the first step up to us. He wants us to TRUST Him and put our faith in Him, the way a little child will leap into their Daddy's arms, believing wholeheartedly that daddy will catch them. You have been asking Him for a sign, and He's not going to give you a sign per se, like an angel at your door. You will be AMAZED at how, once you take that first step of faith towards Him, how He will reveal Himself to you.

    Sometimes you have to believe before you can see.

    God Bless you.

  • 1 decade ago

    NDEs are hallucinations caused by lack of oxygen to the brain; do a little more research on them--it's fascinating stuff.

  • 1 decade ago

    When you relent and allow yourself to go with God, you'll see he has been there all along.

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