Jews, Are there two Messiahs or two manifestations of the Messiah?
I have heard some Rabbi's, honoured and respected ones, who state there will be two comings of Messiah(s).
apologio... Are you a Jew? And no the Anti Christ (not another Messiah) will come and deceive the Messiah will come again to Jerusalem - read Revelations.
Sorry, Trish it was something I was told in a seminar. It might not be that there are two messiahs but two appearances of the messiah.
allonyoa... that is what I am talking about Messiah ben Joseph, and Messiah be David. Got any more information and sources on that?
oh Allonyoav is this the Armageddon period or does that still occur much later.
- allonyoavLv 71 decade agoFavorite Answer
Sigh- there are lots of people with the title "mashiach"- it simply means "annointed one". Every king was a mashiach, every Kohen Gadol, every prophet. Will there be two people who are responsible for the messianic age? Nope.
When two mashiachs are spoken about in terms of the messianic age it is machiach ben yosaf (the mashiach son of Joseph) and mashiach ben David (the mashiach son of David) The role of mashiach ben Yosef is merely to prepare the way for mashiach ben David. There is very little written on this- but what is clear is that mashiach ben Yosef preceeds Mashiach ben David by weeks at most- a herald to announce the coming of the mashiach that actually does things.
Some opinions state that Mashiach ben Yosef is the leader in the battle of Gog and Magog, others reject this- what is clear is that it is two different individuals as one person cannot belong to two tribes (David was from Yehudah- Yosef is represented by his two sons in the tribes, Ephraim and Menasseh). As such- this concept is completely different to the Christian concept ot the second coming of the mashiach.
edit: What you need to understand is that Judaism does not say there HAS to be the war between Gog ad Magog (what you refer to as Armageddon- except in the Jewish version there is no Satan, anti-Christ, horseman or in fact most of what is said in the New Testament in rvelations...). The coming of Mashiach can be a number of ways depending on the condition of the world at the time and the spiritual state of the Jews at the time. It is stated that if all Jews were to observe two consecutive Shabbos' the Mashiach would be instantly revealed and the messianic age started immediately. In that scenario the mashiach ben Yosef would NOT appear at all. Another intermediate scenario is if we are bein yonim (at an intermediate spiritual level- the exact definition of this is actually debated so I'm not going to elaborate on it)- in that scenario the appearnce of Mashiach is more gradual and i mashiach ben Yosef may make an appearance as a politician or other similar figure- essentially a pre-cursor that elevates the world so we are heavier on the "good" side. The worst case scenario is when we spiritually decrepit, unworthy and Mashiach is basically being sent to save us from ourselves (kinda along the lines of why God used the years of suffering of Avraham and Sarah (they are considered to have suffered 190 years waiting for the birth of Isaac- thus the 100 years of Age of Avraham at the time plus the Sarah's 90 years) to count against the years spent in Egypt so he could redeem the Jews earlier). IN that scenario you have the war of Gog and Magog and mashiach ben Yosef is a general/war chief whatever and is most likely the first person to be resurrected when all the dead are brought back to life. However, just to emphasise the point- the two are very close together in time if not continguous and overlapping and Mashiach ben Yosef does not do any of the tasks set aside for Mashiach ben David.
- pesaventoLv 44 years ago
Christianity became riffing off of alternative Hellenic salvation religions that have parallels with Zoroastrianism, so there are connections. hard to comprehend at this element which became the source, what have been the impacts and how direct/oblique they have been between any 2. shall we've a difficulty the place impacts between different components have been moving into the two guidelines. what's greater clean, besides the fact that, is that Judaism wasn't a participant in all of that. Judaism does not have the dualism so usual in Greek philosophy, Zoroastrianism, Hellenic salvation religions, Gnostic questioning and Christianity. Judaism makes use of an rather distinctive definition of Messiah than Christianity. Christianity is in certainty attempting to sledgehammer a thoroughly non-Jewish death/returning incarnate saviour deity into Judaism's mythic narratives and not bothering to observe that it does not greater healthful. using fact the Jewish G-d does not chop up into areas or incarnate, resurrection makes rather no sense in any know in a Jewish context. etc etc etc. All of those suggestions got here from different components - and those components had different impacts. attempting to music out Zoroastrian impression in specific is complicated although, we do exactly no longer comprehend adequate.
- mr. rooLv 41 decade ago
Why do so many Christians give their religious replies to a question that is addressed to Jews?
Mama Pajama and allonyoav write knowledgeably about what Jews believe.
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- Anonymous1 decade ago
Well, what no one likes to talk about is that at the time Jesus was running around chill'in with his entorage there were FIVE OTHER DOCUMENTED MEN running around being called the "Messiah of the Jews".
There are ALWAYS people running around with delusions of grandure and proclaiming themselves the Messiah.
- Mark S, JPAALv 71 decade ago
No, we are expecting only one messiah. There are some references in the Dead Sea scrolls to two messiahs, however; that's probably what you heard.Source(s): I'm Jewish.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
ALLONYOAV gives the correct answer. I will star this post in the hope that mama_pajama sees it and comes along to answer, because I know that she can give you a great and comprehensive answer :)
- 1 decade ago
I have read a rabbi comment on this too. I'm not Jewish but I found it very intresting.
In response to the person above me. There may have been a lot of people running around claiming to be messiah then. That's because that is when He was supposed to come. There was only one who conquered the grave though. I don't know that any claimed to be messiah, but if there were, it dosen't change what happened.
Edit: I don't know of any christians that think Jews will worship antichrist. I understand how you would come to this conclusion, because of the differing descriptions of messiah. This is from a rabbi who accepted Jesus as messiah, which is rare I know.
Day after day, the Sadducees offered their sacrifices at the Temple. Thousands upon thousands of animals were slain, and gallons of blood were poured out on the altar. Lambs and goats and rams and calves were offered up to a holy God. Yet the people could not see.
The Pharisees studied the Torah day and night. They added new regulations to old laws, and they developed the most detailed system of ritual purity that the world has ever known. They taught that study of the Law was more loved by God than even the offerings themselves. Yet they failed to see the heart of the matter. They failed to grasp the fundamental meaning of it all.
For it was not the blood of bulls that God wanted for Himself; it was not the fat of rams that He desired. It was not a people of outward holiness that He sought for; He did not require a new code that would keep men clean. No. He wanted a substitute, a righteous lamb who would bear His people's sins. He wanted a spotless sacrifice who would purify the people within.
Over and over again, a thousand times ten thousand, the offerings were brought before the altar. And over and over again, in numbers too great to count, their innocent blood was spilled. And over and over again, the message of God was crying out: "A substitute must come! A substitute must come!"
The Jewish people of Yeshua's day were all looking for a Savior. Some hoped for a mighty military Leader, while others looked for a Deliverer from the sky. Some looked for a holy Priest, while others looked for a Teacher of Righteousness. Yet no one was looking for a Crucified Messiah. And no one was looking for the Lamb of God. They had forgotten that the righteous Servant of the Lord was Himself to be an 'asham - an offering for sin (Isaiah 53:10). And they had forgotten father Abraham's words that God would provide the lamb for the burnt offering (Genesis 22:8).
Yes, there were some rabbis who claimed that every sacrifice was accepted on the basis of Abraham's offering up of Isaac. And they claimed that in the Passover rite, when God "saw the blood" (Exodus 12), He was looking at the sacrifice of Isaac and not at the blood of the lamb.
Yet, Isaac was not offered, and his blood was never shed. And it was God Himself Who provided the sacrifice that saved the life of Abraham's son. It was Messiah who suffered and died, and it is by His wounds that we are healed (Isaiah 53:5). It was He who bore our sins (Isaiah 53:7, 12 and Leviticus 16:22).
Oh yes, there were Jewish teachers who believed that the suffering of the righteous could bring atonement to the world. Yet when the truly Righteous One suffered and died, they said that it was for nought.
- RuthLv 61 decade ago
No, the bible clearly states that Jesus is the only messiah and the only one by which mankind might be saved.
(Colossians 1:15-20) 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile again to himself all [other] things by making peace through the blood [he shed] on the torture stake, no matter whether they are the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens.
(Revelation 3:14) 14 “And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce´a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God,
(Acts 7:55) 55 But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand,
- 1 decade ago
Don't know what you heard, but we believe that there's one messiah, and that he hasn't arrived yet. Cite your sources, please.