So if vaccines don't cause AUTISM, why is the government awarding this family $1.5 million?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015982-103...

Maybe because the family had enough money to sue? Or because the family knew (mom is a nurse) to check for brain swelling after immunizations?

Will this be the last, or the first in a long line of other families who are awarded for the loss of their daughter?

Update:

According to chemist and chelation expert Andrew Hall Cutler:

"The whole mitochondrial dysfunction thing is a red herring.

Heavy metal toxicity causes an acquired mitochondrial dysfunction which is resolved, with

normal function returning, on detoxification."

Which is 100% true for my son. At 3.5 yrs. he had a "mito disorder", at 5, he no longer has it! But then, he is no longer "autistic" either.

AMAZING what 2 years of heavy metal chelation will do.

No mercury--no autism! ;-)

Update 2:

ETA for LAUREL:

LOL on your "source", David Groski, or "ORAC" as he calls himself most places. He is a Pharma mouthpiece.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/david-gorskis-f...

What's next? NCFA telling us adoption is emotionally healthy for kids?

Update 3:

ETA to W.E. (aka Orac?)

LOL re Dr. Cutler making money off parents! Selling his $15 book? You're too much!

Oh, and when did they take Hg out of the flu shots? Aren't "children" 6 mos. and older supposed to get them?

It takes a lot longer than a "few weeks" to remove mercury from the brain, central nervous system, and soft fatty tissues/organs, but certainly you know that...

"Autism is usually just a delay in development, seeing improvement in 2 years is fully expected."

Delay?! It's FAR more than a delay--it's damn near a death. And your camp says it's incurable. I didn't say he "improved", I said the autism was GONE.

11 Answers

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  • Lisa
    Lv 7
    9 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Sunny, you just don't get it. The United States government said that vaccines didn't "cause" Hannah Poling's autism, but rather, that her autism "resulted" from the vaccines. See the difference? Sheesh...

    Weise Ente, I'm sure you are aware by now that mercury-containing pediatric vaccines were never recalled. They stayed on the shelves and were used until their expiration dates, some as late as 2007. I would expect that most vaccines used in 2002 still contained the full amount of mercury. Of course, pediatric flu vaccines, recommended for all children ages 6 months and up, still contain the full amount of mercury.

    Lol, Weise Ente, I got the dates wrong--Hannah Poling became autistic after her vaccines in the year 2000. Care to change your argument now? You wrote, "2001 was the last year to have thimerosal containing vaccines were in wide use in the US. In reality, most vaccines have a short shelf life. They don't last that long, so Hannah Polling very likely received vaccines without any thimerosal (read the report, she did not receive the influenza vaccine). You cannot claim mercury had anything to do with her condition."

  • 3 years ago

    i'm no longer confident the two way. There are compelling arguments on the two factors AND compelling information for the two factors. I even have chosen to get my toddlers vaccinated, besides the undeniable fact that, at a slower %.. Vaccinations could make a baby unwell nevertheless. My son replaced into vaccinated with the Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis... vaccine and he replaced into unwell the following day. i did no longer think of something of it till he broke out with a foul case of eczema. We introduced him to an allergist because of the fact it replaced into theory that it must be an hypersensitivity and the attempting out confirmed no hypersensitivity to meals or atmosphere. a pair of week and a nil.5 later the eczema merely cleared up by ability of itself. I asked the allergist if something interior the vaccination could have led to this and he mentioned unquestionably. My son could have had a sensitivity to a minimum of something in the shot itself that led to the outbreak of eczema.

  • Anonymous
    9 years ago

    I'm going to try to give as reasonable and fair response as I can. No body has ever argued that vaccines can't cause serious side effects, however scientists and doctors agree that such serious adverse reactions are extremely rare and that this small potential risk is substantially outweighed by the decreased risk of disease/death from infectious diseases. Organizations like Generation Rescue however attribute a very large portion of Autism cases to vaccination believing the rise in Autism rates is due mainly to increased number of vaccines on the schedule and changes in vaccine constituents e.g. thimerosal. However it has been proven that this is not the case. Lets detour for a second with a story that has something for everyone, Rotashield the first rotavirus vaccine to make it to market got withdrawn less then a year later due to causing intussusception. The incidence of intussusception following vaccination with Rotashield was estimated to be between 1 in every 10,000 and 1 in 32,000. The point of this story is that American post license surveillance was able to pick up a side effect that occurred in less then one in every 10,000 infants, yet for the vaccine autism link to be believed I must accept it has failed to pick up an adverse reaction occupying at a rate fifty time greater. I must also believe that numerous epidemiological studies looking in to that very question have failed to pick up an adverse reaction that must be occuring at a rate of 1 in 200 infants to explain the majority of autism cases. I unfortunately cannot believe this, nor can any reasonable individual without resorting to a conspiracy based world view that the pharmaceutical industry, medical community and the governments of MULTIPLE countries are aware of the link and keeping silent.

    So yes vaccines can cause serious neurological damage however the position that vaccines are involved in the etiology of the majority of autism cases is completely untenable without resorting to conspiracy (something I am reluctant to do). I could go on but I have made the main thrust of my argument. If you've got kids or are going over seas the best thing to do is to just get your shots and make sure they're immunized.

  • 9 years ago

    My daughter has autism and was subsequently diagnosed with a mitochondrial disorder, but I'm not a nurse and her dad's not a neurologist, so we don't have a medical record trail like the Poling's do. I think it will still be years away before the science is solid enough for routine compensation and understanding of the connection between autism and vaccinations. Even after my daughter's mito diagnosis not a single physician has said she does not have autism even though her symptoms that resulted in the behavioral diagnosis of autism can be attributed to her additional label.

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  • 9 years ago

    She has a rare mitochondrial disorder that manifested as a developmental disorder. She doesn't have "classical" autism. A few decades ago, she wouldn't even be considered autistic.

    In all likelihood any illness would have triggered the same response.

    This is a non sequitur compared to the generic autism-vaccine claim, which has been very, very thoroughly disproven and I can provide mountains of data showing this.

    Given that all the other autism cases were thrown out, this is the last case for a long while, until another person with a rare mitochondrial disorder.

    Trying to say this even slightly supports the broadest claims of antivaxxers is the level of dishonesty expected of them.

    Edit: This happened in 2002. There wasn't any mercury in those vaccines since they stopped using thimerosal in childhood vaccines in 2001. Cutler is a quack. He's clearly and demonstratively wrong.

    You should probably make some effort to understand this situation before commenting on it.

    Additionally, your hypocrisy is quite alarming. Dr. Gorski has no financial interest in this matter (those claiming otherwise don't understand how academia works). Dr. Cutler on the other hand directly profits from the claim mercury must be chelated.

    Edit: Er...ethyl mercury is excreted in weeks at most. If it caused autism and its absence cured it, then all symptoms would go away in a few weeks.

    Given that autism is usually just a delay in development, seeing improvement in 2 years is fully expected.

    And Lisa, the decision was the vaccines exacerbated her mitochondrial disorder which caused her developmental disorder. This means they are indirectly responsible which implies that in people without this disorder, nothing would have happened. Which happens to agree with all data.

    Edit: 2001 was the last year to have thimerosal containing vaccines were in wide use in the US. In reality, most vaccines have a short shelf life. They don't last that long, so Hannah Polling very likely received vaccines without any thimerosal (read the report, she did not receive the influenza vaccine). You cannot claim mercury had anything to do with her condition.

    Additionally, ethyl mercury does not bioaccumulate or easily cross the blood brain barrier. You are confusing it with methyl mercury which does both.

    That extra carbon atom changes the biochemistry drastically, primarily because methyl mercury forms a methionine analogue by binding to cysteine. This means it gets actively transported through the blood brain barrier and easily enters cells. This is not true of ethyl mercury.

    Many studies have been done. The breakdown of thimerosal results in ethyl mercury which is excreted in weeks.

    You're also arguing with the clinical definition of autism.

    I've never met a scientifically literate antivaxxer for the simple reason all their claims cannot stand up against the slightest scrutiny.

    Edit: Sorry, I read the date they filed the claim.

    Doesn't change the biology of the matter. Ethyl mercury isn't responsible for her condition, or any autism for that matter. Other than the data contradicting this claim, there is no plausible way it could cause the symptoms described.

    We happen to have some level of understanding of such mitochondrial disorders. Fever caused her condition. In this case the fever was most likely from the vaccines that stimulated her immune system.

    Saying otherwise is dishonest.

    Source(s): Microbiologist
    • Commentor
      Lv 5
      1 month agoReport

       and where did the mitochondrial condition come from?

  • 9 years ago

    I'm very excited that someone is able to recoupe from the poision that is being injected in our small children. I have a daughter that is now 12 years old and went down the avenue of seeking legal counsel and was all ways told that the 3 years was up for us to pursue her case. I'm feel that our children have some sort of Immune issues to start with and that is why it effects them different then other healthy children. Folks need to know that parents of children on the spectrum are not looking for people to blame or monies to recoupe but when toxins are being injected into small children that can not handel them this is a global problem. Vaccines are not the cause of Autism but they are the smoking gun!

    Kathy

  • 9 years ago

    There's a saying that is used for people who are in denial, usually drug addicts who won't admit being addicted. Anyhow, it goes like this: "If is walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's probably a duck." For those who don't get it, and I can tell there are some of you here who don't, it means, You can't keep denying the obvious. Anyone can call the CDC and ask if there is mercury in the vaccines, and get a big fat YES. Thousands of children have been recovered from autism, as in the symptoms were taken away by treating for pathogens and toxins. So, if the autism symptoms are being rid by removing pathogens and toxins, then that is the obvious duck. Can it be any more clear than this? I don't think so. To continue to say that toxins, like mercury, which appears to always be listed as a problem in those with autism who do the mercury testing and chelation and such, is not a part of autism, is denying the obvious duck. There is another saying, called "Spot it, got it." This means that what you say about others is true for yourself. For example, if your rant is that practitioners who claim to be reversing autism are all lying and greedy, than it is highly likely that greed and lying is keeping you from accepting the obvious, which would be the duck scenario I previously mentioned.

    There is another saying I want to mention. It's goes like this: "Will those of you who say it can't be done, move out of the way, so as not to hinder those who are doing it." Yes, poeple like me and Sunny are doing it, and it really is a lot of work to recover children from autism. Thus, when others stand in the way with all this denial and criticism and untrue statements, it's even worse than doing nothing. People like me and Sunny have succeeded with our children and will continue to do so, but all this criticism stuff slows down the parents who are new to all this. You are wasting their valuable time and everyone's tax money. Frankly, I would think you would be greatful that my kids went from taxpayees to taxpayers, but I guess that applies to another saying: "You can't please everyone." People like me and Sunny are just trying to tell others how they, too, can make their disabled children neurotypical since others did that for us. It's totally donated time and benefits everyone. Recovering children from autism is quite difficult, so it takes knowing what to treat. Therefore, it's really necessary to mention that toxins and pathogens have to be treated. Sorry, if that effects your income, but there are other jobs to choose from.

  • Anonymous
    9 years ago

    What Weise Ente said.

    Unfortunately the anti-vaxxers are completely misinterpreting this case and using it to fuel their misguided belief that vaccines cause autism. Many parents are now taking this award to mean that the government are admitting that vaccines cause autism. This isn't true. There is no scientific basis to support this. As Weise said, there is a mountain of data disproving any link. That has not changed.

    What must be remembered here is that the Vaccine Compensation injury program was created as an incentive for pharmaceutical companies to continue making vaccines. To sort of take the burden off them. Many vaccine producers stopped making vaccines due to liability concerns. The awards that are given are not always made on a scientific basis, but more a legal one. Awards are given to any injury that may in some way be linked to vaccines.

    There is still no evidence that vaccines cause autism.

    The type of Mitochondrial disorder that girl has is very rare to begin with and by large genetic in nature. Children with this disorder are also commonly prone to encephalopathy in response to fever or any illness such as common cold. It's possible that a mild fever she got from having one of the vaccines could have exacerbated her disorder or it could have been made worse by something else she had around the same time, like a cold. The government made the decision that the time frame these two events occurred in were close enough that an award was justified. It's really complex, but we had a similar case here in the UK which I am more familiar with than this one.

    Also, with regards to autism, if I remember correctly, she only has 3 behaviors that matched the criteria for ASDs. As Weise says, if this had happen a few years earlier, she would have unlikely have even been diagnosed with ASD.

    EDIT:

    Er....no Lisa, thats not what they've said at all.

    Edit:

    This is typical of the dishonest anti-vaxxers. You'll disregard the facts of the matter and twist events to support your own bias. Vaccines do not cause autism. Get over it.

    =============================================

    @ Lisa and Sunny: The presence of Ethyl mercury in the vaccine she had is a moot point. It does not matter even if it was in there. It does not cause autism. Since it was removed from the childhood vaccines, autism rates have been unaffected.

    There is no scientific debate over the safety of thiomersal, the only debate that exists about its safety is amongst the scientifically illiterate (mainly every anti-vaxxer I have ever encountered).

    Dose is poison, the amount of ethyl mercury that was used in vaccines (before it was removed) was in safe amounts. It was too low to cause any toxicity ( by the way, ethyl mercury in ANY amount won't cause autism), and it is eliminated very quickly so it cannot cause any measurable toxicity.

    Of course you lot claim that certain children genetically have impaired mercury clearance. There is no compelling evidence for this though.

    All toxicological data we have so far is in line with the epidemiological evidence that thimerosal is not a contributor or cause of autism.

    Most data shows the half life of mercury in the body is days, and is completely removed from the body in a matter of weeks.

    I also think you people are confusing methyl mercury with ethyl mercury. The latter does not bioaccumulate.

    And no where does it state that she recieved the flu vaccine, Lisa. You're clutching at straws.

    Edit

    @ Gary: I don't think they care. Their position is clearly an emotional one. They did not reach their position based on rational thought or evidence. This is why, it will never matter how much data is presented to them, they will still have this "belief" that vaccines cause autism.

  • Anonymous
    9 years ago

    Its only human to seek someone or something to blame for a child's disorder; the problem is your argument is not based on reason, rationality, or evidence. It is emotional only, being tempered along by confirmation bias.

    Read: " Whose Fault is Autism? A Historical View of Placing Blame" http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/child-myths/20...

  • Anonymous
    9 years ago

    Because, while vaccine injuries happen, and certainly should be recompensed when they do happen, existing mitochondrial disorders do not equal autism.

    Hannah Poling is not autistic. I do believe she is one of the few actual, factual vaccine-injured, due to a condition her doctors did not know about and could not have known about without extensive testing. I'm very sorry she and her family have had to suffer.

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