Why do many feminists confuse 'misogyny' with antifeminism?

Question

I often see feminists retorting to any questioning of the feminist machine as 'misogyny'. Have these feminist not comprehended the difference between:

Misogyny - a hatred for all women based on their sex alone. Hate of the person as well as the class.

and

antifeminism - fighting the political process of feminism, which encompasses men and women. Does not hate the individual, but the 'movement'.


Is this just an attempt to gather pity-points by playing the over-used victim card, or do they genuinely think the terms 'women' and 'feminist' are identical and incapable of differentiating them?

Additional Details

Rio - thanks for your well structured response, however, it's worth noting - I as an antifeminist am not against women being equal, I am against the hypocrisy and hateful elements of the feminist movement, the constant bashing of men and claims of supremacy by feminist advocates.

GreenEyedGirl - thank you too, another good response with an articulated response.

Sibylle - No no, not at all. Unlike much of the feminist movement, I do not condone violence and marginalize violence against half our population based on their sex. I can assure you, as 'feminists' goes, I get on with MANY (way more than you realise), I engage frequently with many via yahoo & email on a day to day basis - as friends. I don't hate the people, I hate the lies and seek an end to the injustices feminism (the movement) has created for men, women & children.

elf - thanks :p you got it ;)

50/50 - spot on.. it seems tha way to me, it's just a 'quick low blow' to try & silence unwelcomed opinion.

The Planet - thanks for your response too - appreciated... I DO agree, there are guys here who DO bash on women as a class. Not to 'excuse' their behaviours, but I suspect this is trollish activities designed to incite angered reactions rather than actual debate... some may even be feminist trying to 'demonstrate' a reason for their activism.

Charis - you see it as I do, thanks :o)

The Mrs - as is so often the case, well said!

Here's a real simple example of how antifeminism cannot be the same as misogyny...

Micheal Flood is a feminist - a Misandrous feminist at that... He paints the 'none feminist man' as being a wife & child abuser. Apparently, only femnist men are good people.

As feminists go - he is the most dispicable cretin I could possibly imagine being unfortunate enough to engage in conversation with.

I would argue with him until the cows came home... or the Moon went out of orbit.. you get the idea.

Now, because I despise *HIS* degree of feminism, and even perhaps him as a person (yes, ok, that too is wrong, but when he hates ALL men except feminist men... yanno?) but hating *him* or rather his concept of men doesn't mean in any way I hate 'women'... I hate what *he* stands for.

Elf, I don't usually thumbs up/down until I've chosen my answer... however, I give you thumb up and a mention:

" FOLKS - take a gander at ELF... she's very, very sexy.... and well worth checkin' out"

Sibylle - have you yet done that email... I've been waiting close to an hour now, I think...

BingBing, I do understand your point, but it also works both ways... how would feminists react if 'men' as a class 'constantly' bashed women - as a class, and blamed them for everything, while claiming to be biologically superior and so on and so on and so on...
Additionally, antifeminists don't blame 'women' for feminism, but we do acknowledge that many women will take advantage of feminist inspired anti-male systems to their own advantage (family courts for example).

Moonspot..
How do you know it is men giving you thumbs down? In your mind, don't women have an option to be anti-feminist?
Thumbs up & down are anonymous - yet you somehow 'know' it is only men giving them you.. Not sure I can take that without a pinch of salt, yanno? ;o)
You're right about a large number of people seeming to think the same choice shouldn't be afforded to men & women alike... just ask feminists about men being given 'financial abortion rights' (walk away if he doesn't want baby - just like women can - with or without his knowledge).
Sorry, but I think you have your agenda set out already.

66z' - I don't doubt what you say, I'm sure there a few guys pleased with themselves that women are under-represented in xyz fields... but let's not pretend it isn't a two way street. I see feminist cackling with delight when they see guys get screwed over.

Answer 1

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

Any and all questioning of the feminist machine is considered the hatred of women..... according to most feminists. This is not by accident. It is intentional.

An anti-feminist is a person that does not prescribe to the unconditional ideology of the man=responsibilities/woman=rights mantra.

An anti-feminist is a person that does not prescribe to the unconditional ideology of man=bad/woman=good mantra.

An anti-feminist is a person that does not believe that all of societies ills are caused by men. That's it.

An anti-feminist is a person that understands that WOMEN as a group are not the problem. That feminist ideology and beliefs are. So, if a woman (or man somehow) prescribes to this man=bad line of reasoning, and identifies herself as a feminist, then an anti-feminist is against that person only, based upon their beliefs and ideology not their sex.

A feminist (some) will almost always interchange misogyny with anti-feminist - intentionally to deflect the attention from their own insecurities and in some cases hatred of men.

Similar to whenever something is stated "for or about women", the gender-baiters will almost always include children with the statement. IE. "Women and children" blah blah....

This tactic is so that if you disagree with whatever "it" is, you are 'obviously' against "women and/or children"....

It's baiting. Plain and simple. No different than the race-baiters like the sharptons and jacksons and their ilk. If you object to their intentional baiting comments, you must be a racist.

Finally, a legitimate dialogue is invariably impossible with race and gender baiters. It just cannot be had unless you agree to drink from the punch bowl.

TMOTS

Asker's Rating:

Asker's Comment:

good show ol' man!

Answer 2

I think, after reading your question, there will be no confusion about your own beliefs. You are a misogynist and an anti feminist. In other words, you got the whole territory covered.

Answer 3

Anyone who opposes what feminism really is, that being gender equality, is likely a misogynist — or, in some cases, a misandrist who is more interested in female supremacy. If someone doesn't want women to be equal, what do they want?

EDIT: Well, aren't we all? Why don't you just define yourself as anti-hypocrisy instead of anti-feminist? You'd probably support the ones who mean it.

Answer 4

OK, that is a fair question. My reply would be that not ALL feminist confuse the two - some DO know the difference. Try not to generalize - it would be the same as asking "why do all lesbians hate men?" Not all do and maybe most don't. Try not to single out the entire group of feminists. Just as with any "group" - ethnic, political, class, etc., there can be an ignorance and lack of understanding between ideas.

Answer 5

I hope you know that hatred against feminists, even if it's not hatred against women, is STILL hatred.. And you've shown that you don't only hate the movement, but the people.
So, a person may or may not be right in saying that you're a misogynist, but I think they have reason enough to believe that you're hateful.

But if this is directed towards me..
I do have reason enough to believe that you're a misogynist, and I stand by that.

-"I do not condone violence and marginalize violence against half our population based on their sex."
Yeah.F*ing.Right.
about to email you in a few minutes..

EDIT-I sent it to you, did you not get it?
aghhhh.. I'll retype it, then!!

EDIT-
OK, I sent it... again..

Answer 6

Women get emotional and can get their terminology mixed up.

But there is a really visceral reaction some women have to men's abject terror of women being in charge of anything - and their need to use overkill to obliterate and suppress the social effect that women want to create in the world. And that is a reaction reacting to a reaction.

Answer 7

Just to get your attention, darling.

Seriously, I feel "moderately" invisible here.

Answer 8

I am a firm believer in equality. Feminism as Doodlebug stated, is just a political movement. I have been accused of being a misogyny for disagreeing the the wackos in the feminist movement. I just think it is laziness on the part of some feminist. They actually think calling someone a misogynist will hurt the persons feeling (yeah sure).

Answer 9

I've never used the word 'misogyny' in my life. But I do have a hard time understanding how anyone can say that they don't hate all women when they name-call and belittle women---not individual women, but women in general---over and over again in this forum. I'm not saying in any way shape or form that you do this, but I hope you'll open-minded enough to see that some men here do do it, just as there are a few women here who misuse the word, 'misogyny' and are quick to generalize and put down the whole male population.

Answer 10

It is easier to dislike all who oppose your views than to recognise them as individuals (like yourself) with similarly strong but opposing views. The stronger the label, the greater the ability to make the person less than human, thereby creating 'other' which can be ridiculed and hated without guilt.

Anti feminists seek to redress the 'over correction' by the feminist movement. Ironically feminism often results in systemic inequalities and oppression of males.

Answer 11

I have seen this as well by some. I think it is a combination of things and often different things. I think some use it as an excuse not to accept truths, however I also believe that some ignorant to the difference. Either way I rarely see their answers supported by others.

Answer 12

They often use the term "Misogyny" to label those who are against their movement because many of them can't handle criticism, so they use the term "Misogyny" as a quick retort. Similar to the victim card.

I support equality, but I will NEVER support feminism and their movement. One doesn't have to look far to see that many aspect of feminism are anti-male. Just look at quotes said by well known feminist and read novels/books written by feminist authors. And why do you think we have bias and sexist law like 'Violent Against Women Act?" The feminist fight for that law. Instead of focusing on legal equality, feminist constantly fighting for special treatment and a nanny government to care for women

Answer 13

Well duh they are feminists, so they conveniently get "confused" when it helps to put feminism in a good light and when it helps to take pot shots at its critics. Its just normal human behaviour. Most people who are part of movement X are objective about it.

Answer 14

Misogyny and misandry seek to denigrate and insult. And it is snide. Anti-feminism (or, perhaps more correctly masculism) is simply a response, reaction, or antidote to feminism's poison.

Answer 15

We can say what you are saying and someone will come along and point out that a movement consists of the people with in it; there for the people with in its circle are hated; thus you have misogynist and misandrists ;a thin lined distinction. I'm against equality period, because of this I'm classified as a hater of my own kind; I can take that slur any way I choose; let them say what they will; I know my self so much better than what they do.

Answer 16

I don't care if someone is an antifeminist. I don't care if someone is a feminist. I'm just sick of seeing anything that someone doesn't like or agree with labeled as misogynist or misandrist. But if you choose to do so, please keep the material fresh so it's at least entertaining to read.

Now, if anybody (choose a side folks) is being hateful and spiteful...you have to expect reactions that are tinged with hate and spite. (Ya get what you give, loves.)

I don't mind attacks on feminism. I don't agree with everything that's out there that is labeled "feminist". But you can discuss what you don't like about a movement (any movement) without having to resort to name-calling and blaming.

sexy: you make some interesting points. I'm not arguing that. But you tend to pepper those statements with things that can be viewed as spiteful. And that's the reactions that you'll receive. I'm pretty open to different points of view but I'm not going to waste my time if someone only wants to hear things that synch up with what they already believe. If this question was reversed, how would you respond to it? Would you answer the question without resorting to an attack? Something to think about.

Edit@sexy: Okey dokey. I see your point also.

Answer 17

I'll ask you a question in return -- why do men confuse the two? I will occasionally state on GWS that I am in favor of one thing and one thing only -- equal choices for women as for men.

That simple statement, which I consider to be the basic feminist tenet, will earn me a whole fistful of thumbs down.

So if so many men are calling me down for wanting nothing but equal choice, aren't they having difficulty distinguishing the two?

They may say they're only against "feminism," which is doubtless some image of a screaming bra-burner they've painted in their own minds. But in giving the thumbs-down on the issue of choice, they're saying that in order to be against feminism you have to be against women.

If these people could get past the radio talk show hate rhetoric and ask themselves the simple question, "do I believe women and men should have the same choices?" I think we would be able to get to the bottom of this.

And I'll tell you something: there are, by all indications, a whole bunch of people on here who seem to believe that the two should not have the same choices. My guess is that most of these people are not women.

Answer 18

Is that kind of like not hating the sinner but the sin? I don't believe either gender should have special rights, but I know a lot of men on here who say they believe in equal rights are secretly pleased to know women are under represented in many fields, whether they admit it or not.